Wine vs. Grapejuice @ Communion

[standingfirminChrist]

Why did he put it there then? It doesn't have to be there to make grapejuice.

Because of the curse brought upon this earth due to Adam's disobedience.

 

[JerryL]

Because of the curse brought upon this earth due to Adam's disobedience.

LOL, what? The curse was death. What's that got to do with yeast on grapes?

 

[Joe]

Because of the curse brought upon this earth due to Adam's disobedience.

Gen 3: 14-19 the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

It doesn't list the Lord adding yeast to the fruit here...but we did inherit some sticker bushes.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Yeast is a sign of decay. Before the fall, there was no decay.

 

[Joe]

No mold until the fall. That sounds about right.

 

[JerryL]

I'll give you break, you don't need me to help you look [removal of heated rhetoric]. You do a fine job by yourself.

[Moderator Warning: The BB Posting Rules require you to show grace to your fellow posters (Rule 3) and forbid making personal attacks (Rule 4). Cool it or you may be up for a 10 BB Vacation.]

 

[JerryL]

Ok, let's move on then. Why is yeast just on certain fruits, according to your fall analogy?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Ok, let's move on then. Why is yeast just on certain fruits, according to your fall analogy?

yeast is on certain fruits because of the curse upon the earth. I already explained that.

Yeast is symbolic of sin. When one allows sin to work in one's life, one's life is corrupted.

The same is true with yeast and grapes. when it is allowed to work its process, the grape juice becomes corrupted.

 

[JerryL]

yeast is on certain fruits because of the curse upon the earth. I already explained that.

Yeast is symbolic of sin. When one allows sin to work in one's life, one's life is corrupted.

The same is true with yeast and grapes. when it is allowed to work its process, the grape juice becomes corrupted.

Ok, I'm done, I can't talk to someone with your [removal of heated rhetoric] intelligence.

[Moderator Warning: See previous Moderator Warnings in this thread.]

 

[Bible-boy]

Yeast is a sign of decay. Before the fall, there was no decay.

Ok, let's move on then. Why is yeast just on certain fruits, according to your fall analogy?

yeast is on certain fruits because of the curse upon the earth. I already explained that.

Yeast is symbolic of sin. When one allows sin to work in one's life, one's life is corrupted.

The same is true with yeast and grapes. when it is allowed to work its process, the grape juice becomes corrupted.

Hello SFIC,

Are you suggesting that yeast came to exist directly as a result of the Fall?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Bible-Boy,

Yes, I believe it was a direct result of the fall of man.

Before the fall, there was no decay nor anything that would cause such.

 

[Bible-boy]

Bible-Boy,

Yes, I believe it was a direct result of the fall of man.

Before the fall, there was no decay nor anything that would cause such.

How do you work that into the creation account? I understand the Bible to teach that there was a one time creation even that took place over a six day period (Gen. 1; John 1:1-10; and Col. 1:16-17).

So by what you are saying above there must have been some sort secondary specific creation ex-nihilo in order for yeast to exist post-fall. Does that line up with the teaching of the Bible and make sense to you?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

No, it was part of the curse pronounced upon the earth.

Just as thorns and thistles were never in existance before the fall.

We cannot explain their existance either other than God said the ground would produce them.

I believe the airborn yeast was a product of the curse just as thistles were a product of the curse.

 

[Bible-boy]

No, it was part of the curse pronounced upon the earth.

Just as thorns and thistles were never in existance before the fall.

We cannot explain their existance either other than God said the ground would produce them.

I believe the airborn yeast was a product of the curse just as thistles were a product of the curse.

I can't agree with that idea. The Bible clearly says that God created every plant that exists on the third day and that they would bear seed and reproduce after their own kind (Gen. 1:11-12). The curse pronounced following Adam and Eve's sin did not bring about some secondary order of creation. God simply pronounced that under the curse Adam would have to toil in order to eat and that he would have to contend with both the thorn and the thistle as he sought to work the ground and harvest it's yeild (Gen. 3:17-18). The text does not imply that those plants (thorns and thistles) did not exist prior to the Fall. All the text says (or implies) is that prior to the Fall Adam did not have to contend with them in order to eat, and following the Fall he did have to contend with them.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I can't agree with that idea. The Bible clearly says that God created every plant that exists on the third day (Gen. 1:11-12). The curse pronounced following Adam and Eve's sin did not bring about some secondary order of creation. God simply pronounced that under the curse Adam would have to toil in order to eat and that he would have to contend with both the thorn and the thistle as he sought to work the ground and harvest it's yeild (Gen. 3:17-18). The text does not imply that those plants (thorns and thistles) did not exist prior to the Fall. All the text says (or implies) is that prior to the Fall Adam did not have to contend with them in order to eat, and following the Fall he did have to contend with them.

The ground was cursed because of the fall. And part of that curse was the bringing forth of thorns and thistles.

There is no indication that thorns and thistles existed before the curse pronounced upon the ground.

 

[JPPT1974]

The wine or grape juice represents Jesus blood
On the cross for us when He was dying there.

 

[Bible-boy]

The ground was cursed because of the fall. And part of that curse was the bringing forth of thorns and thistles.

There is no indication that thorns and thistles existed before the curse pronounced upon the ground.

I'd have to research the Hebrew but I believe the text of Gen. 1:11-12 means all plants on the face of the earth were created at that one specific time. I could be wrong. I'll do a bit of reading, research, and talk to some of the Hebrew Professors here at SEBTS and get back to you on this.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Bible-boy,

So as not to chase rabbit trails in this thread, I have started a thread on thorns and thistles in the General Baptist Discussions forum.

Let's pursue that discussion there.

 

[Bible-boy]

Bible-boy,

So as not to chase rabbit trails in this thread, I have started a thread on thorns and thistles in the General Baptist Discussions forum.

Let's pursue that discussion there.

Okay,

I already saw it. I'm logging off now. Be back tomorrow.:sleeping_2:

Everyone else please feel free to return to the topic of the OP.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

G'nite.

Hopefully we can study this topic gracefully.