wine

[webdog]

:thumbs: Amen! The word "wine" in the Bible is a generic word--it can mean the unfermented juice of the grape (fruit of the vine) or fermented juice of the grape--depending on the context. The word "wine" today ALWAYS means alcoholic/fermented--and in actuality it is considered the "strong drink" which is forbidden by God.

This wine in Proverbs 20:1:

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

is NOT the same as this wine in Isaiah 65:8:

Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

which wine is in Isaiah 25:6? The well aged grape juice is better than fresh? :laugh:

 

[preachinjesus]

Where wine is found in the Word of God, it is either the unfermented juice of the grape or other fruit, or it is the fermented beverage ... context shows which it is.

While I completely appreciate the point and the zeal, this is a perfect example of as difficult hermeneutical backflip as I've ever seen.

There is simply no support for this kind of a claim in either the original texts or backed up archeologically.

It's sort of like saying, Jesus' hair wasn't long and He didn't have a beard...and where it says it in the Scriptures it clearly means His hair just above the ears and He had a 5 o'clock shadow. Let's lay aside our presuppositions and not eisogete into the text what isn't there.

Jesus drank wine...and probably a good vintage.

 

[readmore]

I think I'm seeing a pattern here...

• When the Bible mentions wine in a negative light, it means alcohol, and when it mentions wine in a positive light, it is grape juice.
• We know this because the Bible says all alcohol use is forbidden.
• We know alcohol use is forbidden, because the Bible speaks about it negatively, but when it speaks about it in a positive manner, it is referring to grape juice.
• We know this because all alcohol use is forbidden.
• And on and on...

There's a name for that kind of reasoning.

 

[tjfkbrawny]

In Luke 7, Jesus only said He was eating and drinking. He did not say He was drinking alcoholic wine. As a matter of fact, He refuted the accusation that He was drinking alcohol by saying, "But wisdom is justified of all her children."

His Disciples were later accused of being drunk on "new wine" when they were not. The accusers knew the Disciples did not drink alcohol. That is why they falsely accused them.

Jesus ate and drank, but what He drank was not alcoholic. You are reading into the text that which is not there.

You have absolutely no proof that it was not alcoholic, either. The way you argue is "he said she said."

 

[saturneptune]

Since the Bible forbids wine you can always try this.

 

[mcdirector]

I think I'm seeing a pattern here...

• When the Bible mentions wine in a negative light, it means alcohol, and when it mentions wine in a positive light, it is grape juice.
• We know this because the Bible says all alcohol use is forbidden.
• We know alcohol use is forbidden, because the Bible speaks about it negatively, but when it speaks about it in a positive manner, it is referring to grape juice.
• We know this because all alcohol use is forbidden.
• And on and on...

There's a name for that kind of reasoning.

This is the reason, at least in part, why some abstain from these threads now. I wonder how many are in the archives? Some are very heated.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

While I completely appreciate the point and the zeal, this is a perfect example of as difficult hermeneutical backflip as I've ever seen.

There is simply no support for this kind of a claim in either the original texts or backed up archeologically.

It's sort of like saying, Jesus' hair wasn't long and He didn't have a beard...and where it says it in the Scriptures it clearly means His hair just above the ears and He had a 5 o'clock shadow. Let's lay aside our presuppositions and not eisogete into the text what isn't there.

Jesus drank wine...and probably a good vintage.

It is not I who is eisogeting into the text what isn't there. You, and others are when you make such foolish statements that Jesus drank wine and probably a good vintage.

Nowhere in Scripture does it say the Lord Jesus Christ drank wine... nowhere!

The Pharisees accused Jesus of the very same thing you do now.

 

[TCGreek]

I think I'm seeing a pattern here...

• When the Bible mentions wine in a negative light, it means alcohol, and when it mentions wine in a positive light, it is grape juice.
• We know this because the Bible says all alcohol use is forbidden.
• We know alcohol use is forbidden, because the Bible speaks about it negatively, but when it speaks about it in a positive manner, it is referring to grape juice.
• We know this because all alcohol use is forbidden.
• And on and on...

There's a name for that kind of reasoning.

:applause:

 

[tinytim]

I am still waiting on this answer...

Why does the Bible tell a deacon to not drink MUCH wine?
Is this wine considered Juice? or is it Alcoholic?

If it is Juice, then why the prohibition against Juice?
If it is Alcohol, then it makes much more sense.

So for those that want to make up the rules as you go, answer this!

Also, why was the Corinthians drunk at communion, if they were not using alcohol...

You all slithered out of the question about the Bible translating oinos as Juice, by changing the definition of "wine" to mean both juice and alcohol...

I dare you to stand in your churches this Sunday and tell them you had wine at breakfast this week... If you are convinced it can mean Juice.

Also, if it truly can mean juice, then why do you go to the trouble to say you do not serve wine but welchs at communion...

At the next communion, announce you will have bread and wine...
Let's see what happens...

Everyone knows wine means alcohol...
Except the few that want to slither the definition away.

 

[tinytim]

It is not I who is eisogeting into the text what isn't there. You, and others are when you make such foolish statements that Jesus drank wine and probably a good vintage.

Nowhere in Scripture does it say the Lord Jesus Christ drank wine... nowhere!

The Pharisees accused Jesus of the very same thing you do now.

So are you saying we are fools for believing what the Bible says?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Too much grape juice can and will likely increase insulin levels and eventually have a negative impact on a person's health.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

So are you saying we are fools for believing what the Bible says?

But do you believe what the Bible says concerning the subject of wine in the life of a Believer. It doesn't appear so by your posts.

 

[saturneptune]

I am still waiting on this answer...

Ah yes, I can hear the Jeopardy song playing as you ask.

 

[ccrobinson]

So, the word wine in one place means one thing, but the same word means the exact opposite in a different place?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I have told my pastor of the wine I have made using ancient recipes recorded by historians of Bible times. He is anxious to try it out with communion the next time we have communion.

3 months since it was made and still no fermentation... nor will it ever ferment.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

So, the word wine in one place means one thing, but the same word means the exact opposite in a different place?

As my wife pointed out earlier, the wine that is a curse to man is not the same as the wine that is a blessing. One is alcoholic and the other isn't.

 

[Joe]

To the OP: Jesus a Partier How disheartening!

It's comforting to believe we are to completely abstain from alcohol except for medicinal uses. La la la la... It makes me happy

 

[npetreley]

It's comforting to believe we are to completely abstain from alcohol except for medicinal uses. La la la la... It makes me happy

I need a shot of medicine to tolerate this thread.

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

To the OP: Jesus a Partier How disheartening!

It's comforting to believe we are to completely abstain from alcohol except for medicinal uses. La la la la... It makes me happy

Interesting point. What about meds (besides alcohol) used for surgery? A person can't be said to 'be sober' when he's all doped up and waiting to be cut. To say that alcohol is always wrong would also condemn a patient not wanting to be cognizant when the knife work begins.

 

[webdog]

I have told my pastor of the wine I have made using ancient recipes recorded by historians of Bible times. He is anxious to try it out with communion the next time we have communion.

3 months since it was made and still no fermentation... nor will it ever ferment.

Have you sent it to a lab so they can test it?