1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Wise and Foolish Virgins

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by J. Jump, Jul 9, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 14 of 18
  1. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,051
    Likes Received:
    0
    All I am getting from your posts is "works salvation"--you have to "work" to prove yourself to God. If you are born again, you are clothed in the righteousness of Christ--what part of that do you not understand? We are saved by grace and kept by grace. Seems that you are into Galationism.
     
    #261 Linda64, Jul 11, 2006
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew, chapter 19

    "5": And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
     
    #262 Brother Bob, Jul 11, 2006
  3. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    SFIC you have to go a bit further into the story to see the wedding garment. Verse 65 tells us what this looks like Then she took her veil and covered herself.

    And your verse does not tell us that she was given the veil.
     
    #263 J. Jump, Jul 11, 2006
  4. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then you obviously haven't been paying very close attention, because works based salvation is a false teaching and I have spent many hours on this board making sure that folks know that.

    What you and many others are doing is trying to combine two distinct messages and trying to make everything talk about eternal salvation.

    Eternal salvation is based solely on the works of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, Who shed His blood and died on the cross to pay my sin debt. The moment I believed that I was saved. Done deal. Never to be changed. The matter of eternal salvation has never come up again since 1988 and will never come up again, becuase I am saved. Period. End of dicussion as far as the Bible is concerned.

    However once eternal salvation is out of the way then another aspect of Christendom comes into view and that is righteous living. I am to living according to Scripture after I am saved.

    What is the point of me living rightly if everyone is going to be the bride of Christ? Why should I deny myself and live for Christ now if I get to be a part of the bride no matter how I live life?

    Again you would marry someone that was a habitual cheater, so why do you expect Christ to marry someone that lives for self and cheats on Him?

    It doesn't make sense. The only thing that makes sense and it's exactly what the Bible teaches is that those who live according to Scripture get to become the bride of Christ. And those that don't live right don't get to, but they are eternally saved.

    That's absolutely right for eternal purposes. But being the bride has to do with the kingdom which is not eternity, but 1,000 years in length. So there are different requirements for participation in the kingdom.

    See if you all would keep these messages separate instead of trying to make everything about eternal salvation you would see this.

    Man and I'm the one persecuting your husband. Better check again, because that's the second time you've accused me of being something I'm not. Care to explain what that is so I know what I'm denying :)
     
    #264 J. Jump, Jul 11, 2006
  5. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why does it say the 1000 years is in past tense? You see I don't believe in a 1000 years yet to come. Jesus never mentioned anything about a 1000 years but the Scripture says 1 day as a 1000 years and visa versa. I believe in a resurrection yet to come of all that are in the grave unto them that have done good the resurrection of life and unto them that have done evil the resurrection of damnation. Anyway, if you will read the chapter close about the 1000 years you will see it is only souls that lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years not both souls and bodies.
     
    #265 Brother Bob, Jul 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2006
  6. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not sure what you are talking about here. Reference?

    Well the Bible says it's going to be a 1,000 years, so we had better believe it!

    No He didn't mention the phrase 1,000 years. He preached His kingdom, which when we compare Scripture with Scripture we will find throughout Scripture that it is 1,000 years, becusae it's the only thing that fits.
     
    #266 J. Jump, Jul 11, 2006
  7. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    I say this quite frequently. There's a verse you may have heard of, it's in 1 John, and it goes something like this: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins."

    Trust me; I'm not praying to be saved multiple times daily.
     
    #267 Hope of Glory, Jul 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2006
  8. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    This twist job needs to be framed. It's a real piece of work.
     
    #268 Hope of Glory, Jul 11, 2006
  9. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Revelation, chapter 20

    "4": And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    It does not mention Christ on earth. And it does not mention us, it says "they" lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
     
    #269 Brother Bob, Jul 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2006
  10. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bob John was seeing things that are going to take place in the future. He saw the 1,000-year reign and then he saw things that were to take place after the 1,000-year reign.

    That's why it is past tense. It doesn't mean it has already happened. It will happen in the future, of that you can be 100% sure!
     
    #270 J. Jump, Jul 11, 2006
  11. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, if you go back to the story of Eleazar and Rebekkah, Eleazar (a picture of the Holy Spirit) gave the garments to Rebekkah for her to clothe herself when she went to meet her groom. She remained uncovered until she went to meet her groom, and it is very interesting that Rebekah's brother and mother, both in the family, were not given jewels of silver and gold, nor raiment, but they were given precious things.
     
    #271 Hope of Glory, Jul 11, 2006
  12. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    3
    Paul taught Christ is not divided in 1 Corinthians, yet it certainly appears some are trying to divide Christ. Saying He will cast some of the saved into outer darkness.

    Hogwash!
     
    #272 standingfirminChrist, Jul 11, 2006
  13. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't understand how you could get that, since that is diametrically opposed to what he has been stating explicitly and unambiguously.
     
    #273 Hope of Glory, Jul 11, 2006
  14. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus;and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    I don't know how you get the future out of the past. The Scripture says the past not the future. But this is a great big can of worms and I guess we don't want to hijack this thread for that.
     
    #274 Brother Bob, Jul 11, 2006
  15. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,051
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've been paying very close attention--I see "saved by grace and kept by works of the flesh" (which is the error of Galatianism)

    There is only one message--Man is a sinner--sin separates man from a Holy God--Jesus Christ died to save sinners in order to redeem sinful men. 1 Cor. 15:3-4.

    Eternal salvation is never out of the way--here is where you get into a "works salvation"--of course, we are to live righteously, but it is not by OUR OWN righteousness--it is the righteousness of Christ working THROUGH us. (Eph. 2:10)

    Eternal salvation does NOT teach that you can live any way you want after you are saved. Do a study on Rom. 6-8. We are to live holy lives--it DOES matter how we live now.

    Jesus is coming back for a Church without spot or blemish (Eph. 5:27) If the Church is without spot or blemish, glorious and holy, as the scripture says, the Church must be the Bride, not part of the Bride.....the Bride cannot be anymore pure and holy as it is described in Eph. 5:27--

    Those who put their trust in the shed blood of Jesus Christ (by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves; not of works, lest any man should boast) are members of the Body/Bride of Christ, the Church--the results of that grace is holy living according to Scriptures--and that holy living is done through the power of the Holy Spirit Who indwells all the true believers. We all start out as "babes" and we are to desire the "sincere milk of the word"--that's how we grow spiritually--and we all grow at different rates. Some people remain "babes" for most of their Christian lives, but they are STILL members of His Body/the Bride. The ENTIRE Church is the Bride. The Church consists of ALL born again believers, both Jew and Gentile.

    We are the Bride of Christ FOREVER--when we receive Christ, we are made partakers of His eternal life--like I said, there is only ONE message--we either trust in the shed blood of Jesus Christ for our salvation and live with God eternally or we reject God's gift of salvation and live eternally separated from God--which is the second death.


    Not an accusation, simply an observation. I explained Galatianism in this post--"saved by grace and kept by works of the flesh." (Galatians 3:3)

    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Peter 1:3-5)
     
    #275 Linda64, Jul 11, 2006
  16. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Come on Brother Bob did you not read my response? John was looking into the future. He was being shown things that WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE. Now he was shown this people ruling and reigning and then he saw events after that period, so that makes it past tense in relation to what he was looking at.

    If it is past tense please tell me what 1,000 years did Christ rule over the earth with the souls of the beheaded? When was the tribulation? Because this rule comes after the tribulation.

    Maybe we do need to start a new thread. But again this is one of those really simple things that shouldn't take much to see.
     
    #276 J. Jump, Jul 11, 2006
  17. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is generally called prophetic past tense. When giving a complete vision of what is going to happen, the story is related as already having happened. For example, if you were going to tell the story of a football game, without error, you might say, "After the kickoff, the QB passed the ball to..."
     
    #277 Hope of Glory, Jul 11, 2006
  18. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Where does it say it comes after the tribulation?

    HoG and JJ ; explain why John only saw the souls and tell me where it says when this took place. Also, it says they were Martyrs so that leaves you and I out of it. Also it says "lived" as in already happened. Also it is referring to the souls that were under the Altar of God that were given white robes and told to rest a little while longer.

    • First, it does not mention the second coming of Christ.
    • Second, it does not mention a reign on earth.
    • Third, this passage does not mention a bodily resurrection.
    • Fourth, it does not mention Christ on earth.
    • And fifth, it does not mention us, it says "they" lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
     
    #278 Brother Bob, Jul 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2006
  19. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then you are seeing through some tainted glasses, because that's not what I have been saying at all. When a person is saved they are saved. There is nothing to be kept by or from. It's just a done deal. We are saved by grace through faith apart from any works of our own. And at the very moment we believe eternal salvation becomes a non-issue. It's over and done with. The subject will never be brought up again. It's settled.

     
    #279 J. Jump, Jul 11, 2006
  20. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    I honestly can't believe I need to walk you step by step, but here goes.

    These people were believers during the tribulation. The tribulation is when you will have the mark of the beast and you won't be able to buy and sell unless you have the mark of the beast and worship the beast.

    These people did not worship the beast. They did not receive the mark of the beast, because they were believers in Christ. And because they were saved they were beheaded for their testimony.

    They came to "life" is where we see them getting bodies and they ruled and reigned with Christ during the 1,000-year period that comes after the seven-year tribulation.

    Here is the resurrection again showing bodies, but only for the saved, not the unsaved.

    Here is our future aspect. They will reign with Him. In the future this WILL happen. It's a future tense verb. It is understood that you know the reign of Christ begins after His second coming. It shows that this reign will be on earth because they are to be priests. There aren't going to be anybody in the heavens or heaven that need a priest during the 1,000 years. But those that survived the 1,000-year period will need a priest.

    It does mention a bodily resurrection twice. Now the word body isn't in there, but that's what resurrection is all about.

    No it doesn't mention us, becuase Christians will have already been dealt with during this period. Christians are judged directly after the rapture and before the second coming.
     
    #280 J. Jump, Jul 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2006
Page 14 of 18
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...