Wise and Foolish Virgins

[gekko]

thank you SFIC.

 

[canadyjd]

Nothing has been shown to make this a correct statement and actually the statement could be turned directly around and applied to you and those that think like you.

On the contrary, many scripture passages have been shown to you that make the statement correct. In response, you attempt to change the clear meaning of words, read into texts things that simply are not there, and dismiss out of hand any scripture or opinion that contradicts whatever "dispensation" you can come up with to support what your claim.

You are the very first person to demonstrate to me the faulty thinking of those who hold to dispensationalism and how it is a theology devoid of a sound scriptural basis. Thank you.
peace to youraise:

 

[J. Jump]

Sudden destruction does not come to the saved, but to the unsaved.

Really so all the unsaved that are left behind are going to be suddenly destroyed at the moment of the rapture? Of course they are not. There is at least seven more years of human history that takes place with the unsaved still operating as normal. No picture of destruction there.

 

[canadyjd]

Really so all the unsaved that are left behind are going to be suddenly destroyed at the moment of the rapture? Of course they are not. There is at least seven more years of human history that takes place with the unsaved still operating as normal. No picture of destruction there.

Only if you hold to pre-trib rapture.

peace to youraise:

 

[J. Jump]

On the contrary, many scripture passages have been shown to you that make the statement correct. In response, you attempt to change the clear meaning of words, read into texts things that simply are not there, and dismiss out of hand any scripture or opinion that contradicts whatever "dispensation" you can come up with to support what your claim.

Almost the exact same thing can be said of you. It has been given and shown that your view is in clear violation of Scripture, but you twist and turn and cram things into the text that aren't there so that you can hold on to your theology.

The bottom line is only one is supported by Scripture. And if you think you are correct, then go on proclaiming it and I will continue as long as the Lord sees fit to refute it with Scripture and then we will both have to answer to what we believed and what we helped others believe. I am very confident as to what I believe now and have no issues with sharing these Truths with others.

 

[gekko]

On the contrary, many scripture passages have been shown to you that make the statement correct. In response, you attempt to change the clear meaning of words, read into texts things that simply are not there, and dismiss out of hand any scripture or opinion that contradicts whatever "dispensation" you can come up with to support what your claim.

You are the very first person to demonstrate to me the faulty thinking of those who hold to dispensationalism and how it is a theology devoid of a sound scriptural basis. Thank you.
peace to youraise:

ok. i dont mean to come down on you in any way.
but instead of having an argument that goes something like:

A: im right!
B: no your wrong.
A: your wrong.
B: no im right...

etc.

show what information you have obtained instead.

 

[J. Jump]

Only if you hold to pre-trib rapture.

Again which is clearly state in both the OT and the NT. So it's safe to say Scripture is clearly on the side of the pre-trib rapture!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Fourth, we need to rid ourselves of the false conception that the five foolish virgins ran out of oil. The text is clear on this point; the five foolish virgins never brought any oil with them. A footnote in the NET Bible indicates that the word “extra” is not found in the Greek text, but has been supplied because the context implies it. I don’t think so at all. Surely the author is able to clearly supply this detail, so crucial to the interpretation of this parable. But he did not. Why do we wish to think they brought any oil with them? Perhaps it is because we read that the virgins claimed that their lamps were “going out” in verse 8. Would they all have been burning their torches for lighting the inside of the house where they all waited and slept? Would there not be the normal lighting in that place? Why would all five run out at the same time, just when they were preparing their lamps?

I would understand that the lamps were transported without oil in them. If they traveled in the daylight, these lamps would not have been needed on their journey to the wedding place. The reason the wise virgins brought oil was because the oil was carried in flasks and added to the lamps at the time of need. There must have been some residue of oil on the rag or wick of the five empty lamps, which quickly burned out, only moments after being lit. This would explain why all five torches went out at the same time. Perhaps, too, these foolish virgins minimized their foolishness by describing their plight as “running out” so as to look less foolish.

taken from http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=3041

 

[gekko]

Fourth, we need to rid ourselves of the false conception that the five foolish virgins ran out of oil. The text is clear on this point; the five foolish virgins never brought any oil with them. A footnote in the NET Bible indicates that the word “extra” is not found in the Greek text, but has been supplied because the context implies it. I don’t think so at all. Surely the author is able to clearly supply this detail, so crucial to the interpretation of this parable. But he did not. Why do we wish to think they brought any oil with them? Perhaps it is because we read that the virgins claimed that their lamps were “going out” in verse 8. Would they all have been burning their torches for lighting the inside of the house where they all waited and slept? Would there not be the normal lighting in that place? Why would all five run out at the same time, just when they were preparing their lamps?

I would understand that the lamps were transported without oil in them. If they traveled in the daylight, these lamps would not have been needed on their journey to the wedding place. The reason the wise virgins brought oil was because the oil was carried in flasks and added to the lamps at the time of need. There must have been some residue of oil on the rag or wick of the five empty lamps, which quickly burned out, only moments after being lit. This would explain why all five torches went out at the same time. Perhaps, too, these foolish virgins minimized their foolishness by describing their plight as “running out” so as to look less foolish.

dont mean to put it down...

but to me. reading that. sounded like a lot of speculations and opinions mixed in there...

imho.

in the KJV it says that the lamps were "gone out"

we've got to find out what that means. how could lamps "gone out" but not have oil in them?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

how could lamps "gone out" but not have oil in them?

if one lights a wick in a lamp that has no fuel, the wick will not stay lit. That was pointed out in an earlier post.

 

[gekko]

if one lights a wick in a lamp that has no fuel, the wick will not stay lit. That was pointed out in an earlier post.

at home. i have, well. my mom has, an oil lamp. shaped like a candle. with the oil inside the candle.

so i can understand how that works with the oil and no oil situation. it would be just like burning a separated wick.

the flame would immediately start... but then go out right away for lack of moisture (oil).

sounds familliar... kinda close to the stony ground hearer.
---

oh. and oil lamps smell nice. just had to throw that in there.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

something to think about...

The foolish said their lamps 'are gone out,' they did not say they ran out of oil.

They were trying to burn the lamps without oil and found it would not work. Then they demanded of the wise virgins, 'Give us of your oil.' They did not ask for oil, but demanded it.

 

[gekko]

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

I just wanted to post this again so i didnt have to keep going to the first page or to some other page... also since we're so far up here i thought i'd post this again to have some scripture referencing.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Matthew 25:8 And the foolish said to the wise, Giue vs of your oyle, for our lampes are out Geneva Version.

Looks to be more accurate.



Funny, my KJB does not say the lamps were going out, but 'are gone out.' And the Geneva does not even use the word gone in that verse. It is the modern versions that use the phrase 'going out.'

I, like sfiC pointed out, believe the foolish were lying. They were trying to get into the wedding party on someone else's righteousness. Just as many think they will be accepted because their grandparents, or parents were faithful christians.

Here's the word, from the TR: σβεννυνται

This is the word that's used in the man-made translation that you seem to put on a pedestal.

It's a present, passive, indicative, 3rd person, plural.

Do you comprehend that?

The translators of the 1611, which you seem to find infallible, but the translators expected others to build upon their work... Even they put a not in the text of "going out".

I have shown you the word in the Greek text from which the KJ version was translated.

Do you comprehend what a present tense verb is?

 

[Hope of Glory]

Nor does it say the wise virgins took extra oil, yet you keep saying they did.

Even the KJV uses two separate prepositional phrases.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I believe John MacArthur was correct in his account of this parable. The foolish took no oil. This is why the wicks would not stay lit.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Show me the scripture that says the lamps had oil in them. I have yet to see it.

Why show it again? It's been shown repeatedly, but you reject it. Their lamps were going out. They could not be going out unless they were lit. They could not be lit without oil.

 

[gekko]

i want to post some scripture that has "foolishness" or "foolish" or even "fool" in it... to see if we could get a better perspective on this or not.
---

Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

the following describes a foolish heart.
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Job 5:2 For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.

Psalms 5:5 - The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
---

so there's a few. how are these? could they relate to the foolish virgins?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Hope of Glory,

As I pointed out, the Geneva says 'are out.'

That would be present tense, would it not? The gone added still implies present tense... That the torches 'are out.'

And the wick does not necessarily have to have oil on it to light it, only to keep it burning. These foolish virgins tried to light a wick without using oil, for they never had the oil.

 

[J. Jump]

I'm not an expert on oil lamps, but I've seen a few. If you put oil into an oil lamp with a wick. Doesn't the oil soak into the wick. That's the premise of the oil lamp if I'm not mistaken.

So if I have an oil lamp that I run the oil out of and take it on a trip without any oil in it. The truth is there is still some oil soaked into the wick. Now it wouldn't burn long and would last long, but oil would still be present.

So now not only are some reading into the text that the five foolish were lying, but now that are reading into the text that the five foolish had brand new lamps that had never had oil in them before.

Do you seem how much reading into the text has to go on to try and hold on to a traditional teaching of man. Why can't we just let the text say what it says and conform our theology to the Bible instead of the other way around?