Can Women be pastors and Elders is the question, not if they can be teachers
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Women pastors
- Thread starter ntchristian
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Women can teach, just not as Pastors or Elders
Don't pastors and elders teach the Word of God?
Again, who cares? In 20 years, a robot will probably be doing the preaching and teaching.
This is only problematic if there is something more to the actual office described in the New Testament. That is the elephant in the room.
ntchristian
Active Member
You can favor it all you want... This has be hashed and rehashed since I first joined, this is nothing new... Type in the search box Women Pastors... And you can see how many times it has, but I go by scripture not by favor... So lets look at scripture, not personal opinion.
1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1Timothy 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Your argument is not with me or with those who hold to this truth, your argument is with scripture!... Brother Glen
I have looked at scripture. And in doing so in context, considering all the relevant passages as a whole, and the inconsistencies of those opposed, I am just about convinced to affirm that God does indeed call women to be pastors. So, I have to thank those in opposition for helping to clarify the issue for me. As I said, iron sharpens iron.
ntchristian
Active Member
That's apparently their argument. It doesn't hold up.
I showed you scripture. Women can not teach men in church. It is prohibited. Does not matter what Mac says. The Scripture is plain. Refute it. You are trying to move the discussion toward do women have an ability to teach. That is not the discussion. The discussion is are they allowed by Scripture. There are numerous homosexuals in the pulpit. That does not mean they are allowed to preach or allowed to be homosexuals. By your logic, being homosexual is ok as long as you can do it and are good at it.
ntchristian
Active Member
I'm beginning to feel strongly about this issue. I believe I am mostly a Baptist in doctrine. But this may be one issue that keeps me out of a Baptist church. If I lived in a different part of the country, it would probably be different. But not where I live now.
So Pastors means shepherds. Certainly woman can shepherd.
Regarding elders, Paul does not specifically say they can be, but heal also does not specifically exclude them. What we have is Paul addressing elders as men, but not excluding it to men only. If we take that passage as absolutely rigid literal then no single man or married man without children that are at least 5 years old could ever be a pastor or an elder. Does your church exclude singles and childless from the office?
Also, many Baptist churches don't even have elders. They have a church council, made up of men and women, as well as a deacon board that functions in a quasi deacon/elder role with men and women participating. In that structure, pastors intermix their title between pastor and elder, but then no lay person is considered an elder.
In other words, many Baptist churches have a non-biblical governance.
What verses support that position?
There is a spiritual headship principle in play on this issue, as Scriptures very clear that the man is the one instituted by God as headship over the church and family!
Paul specifically excludes women as elders.
An Elder has authority in the church and an Elder must be able to teach in the congregation. Paul plainly said that a woman is not permitted to have authority over a man in church and is prohibited from teaching a man.
No!
Scripture says Christ Jesus is.
Colossians 1:18
"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."
Or more accurately in this case, goats lead sheep astray.
I know what you think. I know that you also are leaning on one verse and not actually addressing the issue of can versus should.
Nothing to address. Paul plainly said can not. He said it was shameful or disgraceful.
He said only a married man with children that are well disciplined can be an elder. Do you deny all men who don't meet that exact criterion from being elders? Come now, Reynolds, be consistent in everything and take it entirely literally.
My point has been made. I showed you scripture. You are free to interpret otherwise. I simply expect you to consistently interpret all passages the same way.
I wonder how Paul stated that men should be deacons, yet Paul called Phoebe a deaconness. Hmmm....
You have shown no Scripture that supports your position. I actually do hold that only a man with a well disciplined family can be an elder. The exception would be the man who has remained unmarried for the sole reason of service to God. Paul specifically granted that exception.
ntchristian
Active Member
They either can't or won't answer that because they have no satisfactory answer. Paul also said that women should keep quiet in the church but also accepted women prophets. Another quandary -- but not for me.
My goodness, I started this thread uncertain of my position. But all the posts, including yours, have helped me decide. Amazing.
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