Isaiah 9:10 - The Harbinger - God's Judgment on America?

Apparently it is as He has blessed the country like no other.

No one said that he invoked a covenant. He consecrated the nation unto God in the same way that people consecrate their children unto God.

It's obvious that as a leader, George Washington understood the principles of Scripture and how corporate, national submission to God would benefit the nation.

And why not? Though no one said that he did. But whether he did or not, the EXACT same things that took place with that other country(Israel) consecrated unto God by King Solomon are the EXACT same things that are taking place in the United States which was also consecrated unto God.

Yep. It's stated in Matthew 5:45 That you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

 

I know it well enough to know that apparently in God's eyes, we've never done so before as He has never allowed our place of consecration unto Him to be struck before.

We're speaking of the nation being consecrated unto God in the same manner as Israel was consecrated unto the Lord by King Solomon. If I have said covenant, my apologies. But like King Solomon, George Washington consecrated the country unto the Lord.

 

Switzerland, anyone?

 

The slashing of interest rates was just another act of defiance against God just as had been the response of Israel in their attack. That slashing is depictive of man's "we can fix it ourselves" attitude. When the issue is spiritual, not economic.

It wasn't. It was a warning of what was to come if the country does not return to God. The end result will be the destruction of the country as we know it brought about by a complete economic collapse.

Given to INDIVIDUALS.

I don't know what his purpose is. But he hasn't said anything in the book that's SCRIPTURALLY untrue.

Who said that?

 

Right because we all know that Switzerland has the same economic and military might as the United States.

Yes, we all know that Switzerland's blessings have made her wealthy and free enough to evangelize the world.

We all recognize that the economy of the world hinges on Switzerland's economy.

We all know that Switzerland is a member of the G8.

Please try again.

 

You're reaching. You said the response of the U.S. is EXACTLY the same response as Israel's. You say the U.S. is the most blessed nation on earth, which is an economic statement. You say the U.S. slashing interest rates is an act of defiance to God. You want to believe "The Harbinger" so badly that you will mix up literal and metaphorical statements when it suits you.

Jonathan Cahn said the U.S. economy collapsed in 2008:

In the days after 9/11, the Federal Reserve slashed the base interest rate in an attempt to defy the consequences of the attacks. That action put us on the path leading to the collapse of the American economy seven years later.

Yep, you have said "it's right around the corner..."

Precisely. That's the New Covenant, or the New Testament. Individuals repent, individuals are bestowed God's grace, not nations.

"Israel and the U.S. are the only two nations to be blessed by God."

Jonathan Cahn, Page 19, The Harbinger.

Let's look at the Bible. Psalm 147: 19-20

19 He declares His word to Jacob,
His statutes and His judgments to Israel.
20 He has not dealt thus with any nation;
And as for His judgments, they have not known them.

Praise the Lord!

 

It's not reaching. It's you not understanding. :laugh:

It was. After their attack, they defiantly vowed to rebuild bigger and stronger. The United States did the same thing. Slashing the interest rates was part of that defiance to come back and rebuild bigger and stronger.

It's a spiritual statement.

.

Ain't nothing mixed up except your interpretation of what you think I said. And the previous "which is an economic statement" testifies as such. You're consistent for saying something and then proceeding to talk against what you said as though I said it.

It did collapse. He said a collapse. I said a COMPLETE economic collapse. The COMPLETE economic collapse is still to come.

I have said "what" is right around the corner?

Yet you see no where in Scripture that says NATIONS aren't bestowed God's grace. What Scripture shows is that nations were previously bestowed with God's grace and that there is nothing that shows where that national blessing ceased.

Not sure where you're getting that but page 19 of the book doesn't say any such thing.

And what exactly are you trying to say that this says?

 

The ideas portrayed here show the dangers of reconstructionism and dominionism. The elevation of the US to 'favoured' nation status with God has no basis in scripture and is instead based on prideful excessive nationalism that confuses theology and patriotism.

 

???

Still not sure how from that you get that Israel and the United States are the only two nations to be blessed by God.

The paragraph you posted is in reference to them being conceived and dedicated at their foundations to God.

 

It appears that some may be trying so hard to not reconstruct and dominionize that they're ignoring the exact parallels between what took place in Israel and what's taking place in the United States.

 

So, according to you, God's blessings on a nation are being an economic and military power.

Percent of population below poverty line
U.S. 15.1%
Switzerland 6.8%

Unemployment rate
U.S. 8.0%
Switzerland 2.8%

Budget Surplus
U.S. -8.7% of GDP
Switzerland +0.6% of GDP

Inflation rate
U.S. 3.1%
Switzerland 0.2%


Considering the average person living in either of these countries, which one is 'more blessed'? Looks to me like Switzerland with its economy being much more efficient. Plus, they don't get involved in fighting wars and live in fear of having their young people killed in a war.

 

I guess I'm not as blessed as you since I don't have the special revelation from God to understand.

:BangHead:

You wrote this:

That sure looks like an economic statement to me.

:laugh: We've got eyes, we can read what you said about Switzerland falling short of God's blessing in the economic departments.

The United States economy collapsed in 2008? That is your assertion.

You said the full collapse of the United States economy was right around the corner. Help me out....in 2008 was it an economic collapse, an economic meltdown, a near economic collapse....what? Considering you posted this two days ago. Please make up your mind.

That can be found here: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1928785&postcount=16

Great--an argument from absence of evidence.

The book says that Israel and America are the only two nations blessed by God.

"Israel was unique among nations..."

and

"But there was one other one...America."


Continuing on page 19:



Seems pretty definitively stated to me--the author is saying Israel and America are the only nations blessed by God.

 

:laugh: Wow, so LE is now like Noah by posting this thread...

 

Well said post LadyE. I guess there are just some who won't accept what's right in front of them no matter how many times it pokes them in the eyes.

Kinda reminds me of all the prophecies that Jesus Christ fulfilled that only He could and yet the Jews still rejected Him as "The One".

:thumbsup: He sure will. I think there is a lot of unspoken fear even in Christians when we speak of things that show that these are the last days or when we speak of Scripture that shows what will become of the United States if we don't return to God.

 

Go back and read what I wrote. I am objecting to the idea that Israel and the USA are the ONLY nations God has blessed. I freely admit and enjoy the fact that God has blessed America.

The economy and military was Zaac's definition of being blessed. As such he was contending that the U.S. is most blessed because of our stature in these areas.

<snip list>

God may very well be judging this nation. I don't see how one verse pulled out of the Old Testament has any bearing on his actions.

As far as I know by reading this thread the naysayers are not denying that the U.S. is straying from God's ways and is worthy of judgment, I think the naysayers are saying they don't agree with Jonathan Cahn's theory that America has a covenant with God. It's one thing to say that America has a covenant with God, it's quite another to say that God views America EXACTLY as He viewed Israel.

Psalm 147:19 He declares His word to Jacob,
His statutes and His judgments to Israel.
20 He has not dealt thus with any nation;
And as for His judgments, they have not known them

Furthermore, Isaiah 9:10 is NOT a prophecy about America. It's about Israel and it's been fulfilled.

God is NOT calling out specifically to America to repent, he has called all to repentance and He will judge the world, not just America.

Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained.

I don't deny it. I affirm it. I deny The Harbinger's claim that ONLY the USA and Israel have been blessed. I also reject the idea that the USA has 'replaced' Israel as God's favored nation.

Aha! Yes!

Yes. Agreed. I don't see America being singled out.

 

Well no, I won't accept that God has adopted the U.S. as his chosen people. No, I will not accept that Isaiah 9:10 was written as a prophecy about the U.S. No, I will not accept that only the U.S. and Israel have been blessed by God. No, I will not accept that America has some favored status among nations as compared to Christians in any other nation.

Ya see, there ya go again going off on some judgmental tangent. Rejecting some author's wild ideas about Isaiah 9:10 is NOT the same as someone rejecting the prophecies of Jesus being Messiah.

This is another example of you conflating one issue with another. They are not comparable.

 

ITL, am I missing something? You keep saying that and I keep looking back at the excerpt you posted and it says nothing about Israel and the US being the only nations God has blessed.

No I wasn't. We have stature in those areas because we are blessed not the other way around.

No one said it had any bearing on His actions. His actions will be what they will. But His actions against the US are exactly paralleling His actions toward Israel.

Covenant or not, God is dealing with the United States in the EXACT same manner that He dealt with Israel.

And as I said, the 10 Commandments weren't given to you or me either. And as surely as the 9:10 prophecy has been fulfilled, the EXACTNESS with which it is being fulfilled again should wake some folks up.

And you know this how? The fact that the United States is following in the exact same footsteps as did Israel seems to speak to a different conclusion than the one you've reached as far as God not calling America to repent.

You're still gonna have to show me where this was said.