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Oh okay....well another time...I have to stay on route..[it is the companies fuel} but if i have opportunity to pass that way...i will contact you...careful Winman..you might like the sermons...then what would you do with yourself:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

Not being dis-honest.....cannot remember the last time you posted a verse with any explanation.


WD...I am not looking to "score" debate points ...like it is a contest.get to the substance of scripture. All of those debate "points" do not profit.Scripture does.
Offer some. Show where I have departed from scripture, with scripture.
If as you claim it is this same scriptures that have you in a different place, show the scriptural path.That is a simple request.

You say ... I am rude , obnoxious , arrogant.....for stating that scripture is truth. I do not think scripture is up for debate. I offer what I see as truth from scripture.
Show how what I offer is not true, or it is you who are arrogant, rude and obnoxious ...to ignore the verses and substitute debate rules instead.
You can and do disagree...that is your right , however....you do not offer scriptural correction. What debate fallacy is that???? I am losing track:laugh:

 

Yeah....

Well....Yeah....I would be blessed and happy to be accused of fomenting that kind of behaviour...but not at the expense of the truth...never that.

Also...I do wish to give a shout out to Icon about one thing.....at least when he is trying to make a point he is in the habit of usually posting what he believes is applicable (scripture) to back up his comments. I will say that it is prudent and useful to take your Bible and double-check the "context" that any verse or passage is "lifted from" just to make sure the supposed interpretation is correct. But....that said, the scriptures will always "stand on their own" so I applaud that habit. I am trying to get better at that as I continue posting in these forums.:thumbs:Thanks Icon...I do appreciate your good example in this matter.

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

Icon, you might not believe this, but I have been a Christian and a Baptist for nearly 50 years, and most of the churches I have attended were very heavily influenced by Calvinism. I used to believe in Original Sin and total depravity, I used to teach my kids we all sin because we are born sinners. I have never believed in Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement or Irresistible Grace however.

I am more familiar than you might think, I used to order books from John MacArthur back in the early 80s.

Bet you didn't expect that. :laugh:

But over the years as I studied scripture I noticed MUCH scripture that contradicts Calvinistic doctrine. Through prayer and study I have come to reject it completely.

Believe me, if we sat down, it will be you on the defensive. I can absolutely defend what I believe from scripture. Even the pastor of my church admitted that I make very convincing arguments from scripture. I have been studying these subjects a long time.

 

Brother Iconoclast,
My first typing of this post was just another back and forth, but something told me to stop. I addressed you as brother because I have no doubt that you are a genuine Christian that loves the Lord. Many of our mutual friends have written me to tell me that since both of us do love the Lord, there is something amiss. I have thought long and hard about your posts and my response to them, and I am certainly not proud of some of the things I have said. I can only answer for my posts, as I have several times. The bottom line is that if I were sitting in that truck cab with you on a long trip, there is no doubt in my mind that I would not say those things to you eye to eye.

I guess the thing that drives me nuts at times is that we both agree on Doctrines of Grace, and basically, Scripture. Then, what sets me off is usually your reponse to someone else. I really have no right to do this, as I was not in the conversation. Thinking back, you have never been the first to start on me directly. What comes to mind is the fact that I am somewhat older than you, and certainly come from a different section of the country, having grown up in Mississippi, and now live in Kentucky for a long time. Maybe it is a difference in occupation. Anyway, none of those are an excuse for the words we have exchanged.

I am convinced down deep inside you are a person that loves the Lord, and your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless how you word posts or the ones you get back. If I did not believe this or care, I would not keep trying to establish a civil tone. This last round is my fault, as I butted in, and want to apologize again.

Typing posts back and forth does add to the misunderstaning. As I said before and want to repeat, if we were eyeball to eyeball, these are not the words I would use even when disagreeing. It is my hope after reading this post you will change your mind about these efforts being the same as Cain's offering.

 

Brother GP,

I have been helped and corrected greatly by those who go to scripture.this is what we are supposed to be doing-
15 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.

3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

14 And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.

the more we do this...the less time we will have to do the other nonsense that happens:wavey::thumbs:

 

Brother Iconoclast,
My first typing of this post was just another back and forth, but something told me to stop. I addressed you as brother because I have no doubt that you are a genuine Christian that loves the Lord. Many of our mutual friends have written me to tell me that since both of us do love the Lord, there is something amiss. I have thought long and hard about your posts and my response to them, and I am certainly not proud of some of the things I have said. I can only answer for my posts, as I have several times. The bottom line is that if I were sitting in that truck cab with you on a long trip, there is no doubt in my mind that I would not say those things to you eye to eye.

I guess the thing that drives me nuts at times is that we both agree on Doctrines of Grace, and basically, Scripture. Then, what sets me off is usually your reponse to someone else. I really have no right to do this, as I was not in the conversation. Thinking back, you have never been the first to start on me directly. What comes to mind is the fact that I am somewhat older than you, and certainly come from a different section of the country, having grown up in Mississippi, and now live in Kentucky for a long time. Maybe it is a difference in occupation. Anyway, none of those are an excuse for the words we have exchanged.

I am convinced down deep inside you are a person that loves the Lord, and your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless how you word posts or the ones you get back. If I did not believe this or care, I would not keep trying to establish a civil tone. This last round is my fault, as I butted in, and want to apologize again.

Typing posts back and forth does add to the misunderstaning. As I said before and want to repeat, if we were eyeball to eyeball, these are not the words I would use even when disagreeing. It is my hope after reading this post you will change your mind about these efforts being the same as Cain's offering.

 

You must see it that way SN, However that is the verse that comes to my mind when you try and bait me,and have said in times past that you would like to silence me....this is the 4th time you have made a series of attacks in the last few months. I said each time before.....we clash....so you are better to put me on ignore. You cannot leave it alone.I set you off..ok
That is what it is.

Go back and read your posts.You know it is so. Your pattern is taking little pot shots at what i post.....if i do not respond to your baiting me...you then launch an all out attack.
If you do not like what i post that is okay. You post what you want, I will post what i want.let the reader decide.
Webdog, Winman, and others see it your way for the most part.Others see it as I do.

James White is a friend and brother in the Lord.Paul Washer is a godly missionary ...and you trash both as if you are over them in knowledge and gifting. That puts us at odd's with each other.
You cannot produce one of Paul Washer's sermons, or Dr.whites teaching that you can biblically oppose.

Post a Paul Washer sermon....that is -in your words-poison to a local church.
go ahead..i will listen to it.

You have announced your stated intention to silence me. It will not happen.

Why worry Sn......after all.....you have posted that you did not go to school,but you know men who did???....and here I am...the simple dumb truck driver trying to take online courses at the truckstop....so why worry SN?

If my posts have no biblical content .....that will show.....
If on the other hand ...the problem on the BB is not that we must lynch Iconoclast...but instead ...look past SN who is showing cain behaviour, or the NT equivlent...our buddy Diotrephes:

9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.

10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.


This is how your actions appear towards me.If this is wrong than I would apologize...however....this is what you have showed me 4 times now.

You never answered about why the pastor who had invited Paul Washer to your church is not there any longer. Did you have anything to do with that?

I do not expect you to answer publically....but before God....as your other thread speaks of.....we will give an account of our words.Is your conscience clear?

For the fifth time i would recommend that you put me on ignore, because i get you twisted,and I am not going to jump through any hoops for you.
Sorry I cannot help you. You know truck drivers cannot be of much use, or cannot possibly learn anything at the truck stop...right:wavey:

 

SN,
We posted at the same time. I think if we met it would be a bit better, however.....I really think as i have said over and over.....My posts, and thinking just get on your nerves.
You are not the only one, as i have a small "fanclub' here on BB. I admit i am rough or blunt in a way that can be harmful or destructive, if not tempered. Fortunately some other brothers step in and speak in a smoother way.
When someone attacks OR ..for posting scripture, or others who believe as i do....I weed through it, and attempt to dismantle it...depending on what is offered....I just know that it hits you all wrong...i mean i can tell by your responses....

I would like to think that this would not be the case as it should not be between two brothers.....physical or spiritual brothers.
because that would not be good in any way. If I am using this in a wrong way toward you i am sorry....but the fact that these verses come to mind ...does trouble me.


I have had others that i know were christians who had trouble seeing eye to eye on methods and conduct. You will reach other people who i never will reach,and i see others as i travel that you will never see. God will use each one differently.

For example....let me pick on QF- he probably cringes when he reads many of my posts,as he functions in academic circles and all the goes along with the teacher's lounge. Yet....he probably cringes even more when he finds himself in agreement with some of my posts. That is okay also. if i get at scriptural truth, he will translate it into academic terms that he is comfortable with, instead of my crude expressions that work out here on the road.

 

Well, I deserved that one. It was the post I deleted before I posted the one right above. Please at least give me the leeway of responding to that one. To answer your other question, I had nothing to do with the pastor who invited Paul Washer leaving. This was many years ago, and I was not involved in the church leadership much at the time. I am quite aware that we have been through this four times, but, that has not reached seven times seventy. Read my last post, and it should be clear to you I have no desire to put you on ignore.

I had no right to comment about your occupation. I could not do the job if I had been to one hundred driving schools. I would have destroyed many docks by now trying to back up the truck. There is no defense for what I said.

 

My only observation about that is, as I said above, is that you have never directly attacked my Biblical positions. I have always interjected myself when you were talking to someone else.

I think I mentioned that my relationship with OR and EWF has always been civil. So has yours with these two brothers. That alone tells me that there is no excuse for the words I have said to you, especially when you were addressing someone else.

 

Here you go Icon, watch these two preachers. One is Reformed, Paul Washer, and the other is the pastor of a non-Cal, semi-Pelagian, Arminian and whatever else you want to call it Baptist church, and tell me which preacher would help this poor girl who is doubting her salvation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=devfseWA9Lw

Night and day.

 

Good Stuff!

Icon and SaturnNeptune....you guys are making some real progress here!:thumbsup: Let's all bow for a word ofraying::1_grouphug:

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

I do not wish to interfere with your mutual disdain for one another but really guys ....stop it, just stop it. As it says in the catechism (I know both of you have studied) "Mans chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy Him forever." As Christians, we should be the happiest people in the world. And yes we should contend for the faith & oppose a lawless & sinful world. But you are brethren & you should not be arguing (at least not publicly). Christ gives us a NEW commandment....."That we love one another" & gentlemen, I take that seriously.

 

Sn,
Well okay...I mean lets move forward and try to help. I will reflect upon your thoughts about my crudeness of expression and seek to repent of any evil speaking which I can easily spew forth in vilotaion of James 3

4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.

5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:

8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.


I sometimes take the bait when others seek to provoke this kind of response , and believing what i do believe...i know better but do not obey near as much as i know I should obey, and that is to my shame-
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.



Must drive now...later on:thumbsup:

 

You want scripture proving you are rude and obnoxious? Like I said, you are a riot. All someone needs to do is read the post I replied to. As I said, your own words condemn you.
When you post sweeping accusations about only you believing Scripture and the rest of us being heretics and denying it, such discussions are futile.

 

:thumbs::thumbs:

 

Show it from scripture....yes...go ahead-

Can you show where i said...only i believe scripture. As far as the heretic thing goes...Paul wrote that as a fact in 1cor 11
18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.


Are you saying this verse is not saying what it is?

if you think I am on the hersey side of this verse.....show that scripturally...

WD...am on the toll road nead Sandusky, but must find Ct...so will get back to you later if you can respond.

 

Winman.....i will listen in the truck on my smartphone...but will not respond till later on tonight...really need to drive now:thumbs: this could be a useful video .

 

Hey, we don't allow hand-held devices to be used when driving in Ct. You could get a big ticket or cause an accident.

Drive safe, I will check back tomorrow.