Featured Why is it such a big deal?

He hasn't....Either God's deliberations or choice to create is relegated to only operating in some linear time-frame or it's not...

Maybe that's not how he works.

Sure, it's "before" the world began, as far as we are concerned, but so what?

God doesn't have a "before".
Gottfried Liebnitz put paid to that 200 years ago.

 

So, essentially, you seek to nullify the grammar of the text based on what--your understanding of what you think God does according to your understanding of His time?

I'd rather go with the grammar. I mean, if we hold to an inspired text, we have to, right? If Jesus hangs His interpretation of the Old Testament on the tense of a verb, we ought to pay attention to the grammar, right?

The Archangel

 

Yes. When you or Biblicist, or Archangel, or Rippon answer him and offer good verses...I like to think that those who read will be edified from the good verses.
The fact that Con 1 and before that AmyG schooled him is taking a toll on Him. I think most of the Mod's skip over his posts and how he denigrates the Divine description of who Jesus was. DHK has pity on him and tries to help, but he resists that also.

 

My understanding is quite clear, and I have stated it several times. We are elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father. 2 The 2:13 says we were chosen "though" sanctification of the Spirit AND BELIEF OF THE TRUTH.

Put these two verses together and it becomes plain what God the Father foresaw in his foreknowledge, our "belief of the truth".

Yes, we believe on Jesus in time (Rom 16:7) but God the Father in his foreknowledge saw us "in him" before the foundation of the world and chose us "through" belief of the truth, the gospel.

It all fits scripture perfectly with no contradictions or problems whatsoever. Non-Cals and Arminians have believed this view for centuries, it is absolutely orthodox.

 

And why, pray tell, do you think the words I'm using are not "my words?"

Do the words "nullify" and "grammar" cause that big of a commotion? And, I'll point out, they are English.

The Archangel

 

It is quite arrogant for anyone on this board to attempt to assert that another poster is "irrelevant". Some folks need to check themselves.

 

You repeat error yet again. You insist on a wrong and unbiblical view of foreknowledge. You deny the Covenant salvation as revealed in scripture.

All Calvinistic thought that is biblical understands that not only was Jesus the Elect Servant of the Lord, but we were viewed by God as in Union with Christ before the foundation of the world, as Jesus is the lamb slain ;
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

Really? A simple "I disagree with you" is not good enough?

 

<------------never mind------------->

 

Inspector Javert

Winman stated that it did not happen before the world was, but rather in time.

God's eternal design was eternal and from everlasting.....not on the spur of the moment, or "looking forward down a timetunnel to see what would happen"

God loved the elect in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
That salvation while complete on the Divine side, unfolds in time on the human side....with God being longsuffering to-usward...those he has promised by Covenant oath to save.
If he did not understand it, he should ask questions, but instead HE CLAIMS THAT THE WHOLE CHURCH HAS IT WRONG.
We think it is Winman who is being a false teacher here, combing every manner of anti -cal site to oppose truth.:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

You admit we were viewed (foreknowledge) as being "in Christ" before the foundation of the world.

And Ephesians 1:4 says we were chosen "in him" before the foundation of the world.

Well, that makes it pretty simple, we are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father (1 Pet 1:2) who viewed us as being in Christ before the foundation of the world. God could foresee us believing in time, he foresaw us "in Christ". You are coming around to the truth.

But Calvinism teaches a person is chosen OUTSIDE Christ. They teach a man is chosen and then given the faith to believe. This is election OUTSIDE Christ and is pure error.

 

Hello RM,

I am okay with many who disagree with me and we dialogue back and forth. A poster such as Allan and I did not always agree , but he made biblical coherent arguments, and I am confident he would not be guilty of butchering a soul but would remove obstacles that would urge that person into a saving relationship.

Over time and over 10000 posts from Winman, where now this week he has claimed that Jesus emptied himself of deity..is not just a simple disagree with you issue. It is willful and deliberate false teaching and an active attack upon the historic faith no matter how you look at it.

Every thread every day he cuts and pastes his own error, then he attacks any like rippon, or Con 1 who have been nothing but kind to him.
Even DHK was on the verge of full Calvinism when attempting to offer correction to Winman.....:laugh:

No...Rm....I am not sure a simple I disagree will be okay

 

He may be wrong but so is your characterization of his posts.

 

Check yourself, it's way overdue.

 

I showed Mark 13:32 where Jesus plainly said he did not know the day and hour he would return. Evangelist admitted that is what it said. DHK admitted that is what Jesus said, but said it was for a specific time only, something he could hardly know. You have refused to answer.

Tell me Icon, did Jesus say he did not know the day and hour he would return or not?

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Come on Icon, I know you can do this without having to rely on what Reformed teachers tell you, did Jesus say he did not know the day and hour he would return or not?

Yes or no Icon?

 

Winman;.

It has been explained to you over and over no one believes it like you say; here is just one example;

 

you were answered on this and refuse the answer.....as long as you remain unteachable your comments will remain error...24/7...

It is not what the words are on the page...it is what they mean.

 

To believe in Jesus you don't have to believe in anything right now just Jesus. We are turn to Him just they we are sinners dead in sin. We are to come to Him as a child listen and learn from Him and He will lead us to the truth.

Do as the scripture teaches to trust on the Lord over our own understanding.

We want to be Spiritual before we come to Christ knowing it all, you can't come to Him if you do not listen and learn and you do not have anything to believe in if you don't.

The only thing I knew was to believe in Jesus and everything I learned came from doing that. That was the first seed that was planted in me and the only thing I knew at my young age around 8 was just thought He was just a teacher to teach me a prophet of some sort.

I know now the only way to the Father is through Him.

I cannot come to know the Father except through Him. My Lord and My God.

I was just a dog who begged at His table no sheep of His now He had included me when I heard the Gospel of my salvation having believed and now treats me as one of His own.

I have no problem admitting who I was before Christ.