Where does faith come from? 2nd Rodeo

[TCassidy]

A. Saved
B, Faith
C. Grace

Is there a chronological order to those three if so what?

They are, as far as we are concerned, simultaneous.

Regeneration begets faith to believe and the will to obey.

The motivation to bestow that regeneration is grace.

 

[Reformed]

Not to trivialize the momentous, but ones view of total depravity settles where faith comes from. If the sinner is completely fallen in all his faculties then the ability to exercise faith is alien, just as righteousness is alien.

 

[percho]

They are, as far as we are concerned, simultaneous.

Regeneration begets faith to believe and the will to obey.

The motivation to bestow that regeneration is grace.

Kind of like, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye?

What is amazing is that something else is also going to have to take place, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in order for one to inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

It is what we do that will decide if we are redeemed. Salvation is not some magical blessing that God sprinkles on some and not others. Our fate, our reward is in our hands.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

This verse is to the church and the saints therein.

"From hence it is concluded,[1] that Christ stands and knocks at the hearts of unregenerate sinners by the ministry of the word, and that they have sufficient grace and strength to open their hearts unto him, or else he knocks in vain; for what wise man would stand at another's door and knock, if he knew there were not any within that could open to him?...These words are not spoken to nor of unregenerate sinners, nor have they any reference to the opening of men's hearts in conversion, but are directed to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans, and to the members of that church, persons that professed the name of Christ; Who, though they were not hot, yet were not cold, and for whom Christ had a regard, though they were in this lukewarm state; and, therefore, takes every proper method to bring them out of it;...This church was in a sleepy, lukewarm, indifferent, secure frame of spirit, as appears from (vv. 15-18). Christ will not suffer her to continue so, and, therefore, takes his rod in his hand, stands at her door, and gives some severe knocks and raps to bring her to herself, and out of this indolent, supine, and self-confident state and condition she was in; which sense is confirmed by the preceding verse, as many as I love, I rebuke and chasten be zealous, therefore, and repent" (From John Gill, The Cause of God and Truth http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/Cause_of_God_and_Truth/Part 1/section_60.htm )

Also notice Brother Bob Hope in the preceding verse you quoted Jesus said to that church, "19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent". Apparently the people He was knocking on the door to in the following verse are those He also chastens which means they were already children of God because scripture tells us elsewhere, "7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons" (Hebrews 12:7-8)

 

[Bob Hope]

This verse is to the church and the saints therein.

"From hence it is concluded,[1] that Christ stands and knocks at the hearts of unregenerate sinners by the ministry of the word, and that they have sufficient grace and strength to open their hearts unto him, or else he knocks in vain; for what wise man would stand at another's door and knock, if he knew there were not any within that could open to him?...These words are not spoken to nor of unregenerate sinners, nor have they any reference to the opening of men's hearts in conversion, but are directed to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans, and to the members of that church, persons that professed the name of Christ; Who, though they were not hot, yet were not cold, and for whom Christ had a regard, though they were in this lukewarm state; and, therefore, takes every proper method to bring them out of it;...This church was in a sleepy, lukewarm, indifferent, secure frame of spirit, as appears from (vv. 15-18). Christ will not suffer her to continue so, and, therefore, takes his rod in his hand, stands at her door, and gives some severe knocks and raps to bring her to herself, and out of this indolent, supine, and self-confident state and condition she was in; which sense is confirmed by the preceding verse, as many as I love, I rebuke and chasten be zealous, therefore, and repent" (From John Gill, The Cause of God and Truth http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/Cause_of_God_and_Truth/Part 1/section_60.htm )

Also notice Brother Bob Hope in the preceding verse you quoted Jesus said to that church, "19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent". Apparently the people He was knocking on the door to in the following verse are those He also chastens which means they were already children of God because scripture tells us elsewhere, "7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons" (Hebrews 12:7-8)

Salvation is available to all men is it not? You might find this hard to believe but many people who read the bible and even pray will not be saved. Salvation is explained in very plain language by Christ. It is only through obedience that we will be saved.


"If you love me, obey my commandments."

 

[percho]

Salvation is available to all men is it not? You might find this hard to believe but many people who read the bible and even pray will not be saved. Salvation is explained in very plain language by Christ. It is only through obedience that we will be saved.


"If you love me, obey my commandments."

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Rom 5:19,19

Who is the obedient one? You or Jesus?

Phil 2:8 What was Jesus obedient unto? Heb 5: 7 Luke 22:42 Did his last test of obedience begin when he said, "Not my will but thine be done"? Heb 5:7,8 Was that when the Son begin to learn the obedience?

For the Greek gurus. Once again I know, no Greek. So I have to ask you, all, Does the structure of that sentence plus the, the, make that obedience very, very special? Tell me it does not and I will try to my best to think of just obedience and the obedience as carrying the same weight. As I said I will try. Why is, τὴν there if it carries no weight relative to the understanding of the sentence?

 

[SovereignGrace]

For a "theologian" you don't read very well. I never said you were lost. We a little sensitive? Are you sure you have your parents permission to use the computer today?

Hmmm...you look like Bob Hope...however, you post like Bing Crosby.

 

[Rippon]

Hmmm...you look like Bob Hope...however, you post like Bing Crosby.

No, Bing's grammar was impeccable.

 

[Bob Hope]

They are, as far as we are concerned, simultaneous.

Regeneration begets faith to believe and the will to obey.

The motivation to bestow that regeneration is grace.

Christ says, do this if you want to live forever.

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Rom 5:19,19

Who is the obedient one? You or Jesus?

Phil 2:8 What was Jesus obedient unto? Heb 5: 7 Luke 22:42 Did his last test of obedience begin when he said, "Not my will but thine be done"? Heb 5:7,8 Was that when the Son begin to learn the obedience?

For the Greek gurus. Once again I know, no Greek. So I have to ask you, all, Does the structure of that sentence plus the, the, make that obedience very, very special? Tell me it does not and I will try to my best to think of just obedience and the obedience as carrying the same weight. As I said I will try. Why is, τὴν there if it carries no weight relative to the understanding of the sentence?

There is no question that without Christ I would not have the opportunity to go to Heaven. But just because He was perfect does not mean that nothing is required of me. If I want salvation I must be obedient. My works must produce good fruit. He will assist me in this but the task is mine. It is through this obedience that I may earn "well done though good and faithful servant".

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Salvation is available to all men is it not? You might find this hard to believe but many people who read the bible and even pray will not be saved. Salvation is explained in very plain language by Christ. It is only through obedience that we will be saved.


"If you love me, obey my commandments."

No salvation is not available to all men brother. What verses are you relying for that theology?

I agree with you that there will be many people who read there bible and pray who will not be saved.

 

[Bob Hope]

No salvation is not available to all men brother. What verses are you relying for that theology?

I agree with you that there will be many people who read there bible and pray who will not be saved.

Isaiah 56:6
Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Isaiah 56:6
Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

This verse does not prove your contention that salvation is offered to all men, rather it stating the stranger (i.e. the gentile) who is not a descendant of the house of Israel that they too along with the Jew both have a place in the kingdom of God. This same principle is seen in Acts 10:45, "45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost." and Acts 11:18, "18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life."

 

[BrotherJoseph]

There is no question that without Christ I would not have the opportunity to go to Heaven. But just because He was perfect does not mean that nothing is required of me. If I want salvation I must be obedient. My works must produce good fruit. He will assist me in this but the task is mine. It is through this obedience that I may earn "well done though good and faithful servant".

Is one obedient because they are saved or to be saved?

 

[revmwc]

No salvation is not available to all men brother. What verses are you relying for that theology?

I agree with you that there will be many people who read there bible and pray who will not be saved.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Who are those who labor and are heavy laden?
matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Little children are to come unto Him. How many ALL!
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
All mankind thirst they can all come to him.

 

[Bob Hope]

This verse does not prove your contention that salvation is offered to all men, rather it stating the stranger (i.e. the gentile) who is not a descendant of the house of Israel that they too along with the Jew both have a place in the kingdom of God. This same principle is seen in Acts 10:45, "45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost." and Acts 11:18, "18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life."

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[Bob Hope]

Is one obedient because they are saved or to be saved?

No one is not saved until the judgement. So it would be because they have used their free will to follow Christ.

 

[SovereignGrace]

What relationship(communion) does Light(Christ) have with darkness(unregenerate)?

It was stated on here that faith is based upon relationship...and that is the driving force of the OP. Now, unregenerate peoples have no relationship(communion) with God. How does the unregenerate have faith in God when it takes relationship to have faith?

 

[Internet Theologian]

No one is not saved until the judgement. So it would be because they have used their free will to follow Christ.

I'm Soli Deo Gloria. I see you're Soli Deo Hominis.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Hi Bob.

Christ says, do this if you want to live forever.

You and no one else can 'do it' so you've missed His point.

There is no question that without Christ I would not have the opportunity to go to Heaven. But just because He was perfect does not mean that nothing is required of me. If I want salvation I must be obedient. My works must produce good fruit. He will assist me in this but the task is mine. It is through this obedience that I may earn "well done though good and faithful servant".

You'll never make it if it is between you and Him to get you there. Bob you have a profound misunderstanding of the Gospel, your verbiage reflects this.

 

[Bob Hope]

Hi Bob.



You and no one else can 'do it' so you've missed His point.




You'll never make it if it is between you and Him to get you there. Bob you have a profound misunderstanding of the Gospel, your verbiage reflects this.

The funny thing about your statement is that my "profound misunderstanding" fits perfectly with every word spoken by the Messiah. It's so simple. It's a message of "be good" and stay away from evil. As He told the Pharisees, if they wanted to be the sons of Abraham they needed to do the works of Abraham. You have been deceived into thinking that salvation is some deep overwhelming thought bestowed upon you for no apparent reason. That God saw you and not others and just decided to save you. That you had no chance to say no but where driven to obey and are now kept safe of nothing of yourself. Spend some time reading through the gospels and hopefully you will see it.