I believe we've debunked preterism.

I always sit down when I do the BB. And you did say "anti-preterist posts," of which I've done a bunch, not "you."

Understood. Yet there it was. And the other preterists did not comment much, either.

The "purple cow" line is an old one I learned when I was a kid. I thought it spiced things up a bit. Sorry you didn't get it.

As for your John 14 comment, I've translated the verses into two different languages, and yes, I have read commentaries on it, and there is no way in the world that your "sheep stalls" comment had anything to do with John 14.

Here's what I think. I think you mixed up John 10, which is not about the 2nd Coming, with John 14:1-3, which is. Now you are embarrassed about it, and can't bring yourself to admit your error here in public.

Not my thread now, but relevant. You had ample opportunity to actually comment on the thread, but chose instead to try to derail it three times. I expect that from you on this thread, too.

I have done no such thing, and you know it. This is an absolute mischaracterization, a false attack, and disingenuous. I insist on the correct meaning of parousia in every single place it occurs, and once again have translated it into Japanese every single time it occurs. and many times into English. And it is not found "several times" in the Bible, but 24, as you yourself pointed out.

Quit muddying the waters. I have Josephus and consult it often. And yes, gematria is a form of numerology. But both of those things were irrelevant to my thread and you know it. Parousia might have been relevant if you had approached it in a different way, but the way you broached it was not in line with the OP.

By this post, you are proving the OP. Preterism is easily defeated simply by good exegesis, and preterists like you choose to try to sidetrack the discussions rather than answer the points.

 

Amen.

Are you kidding me? I'm premil and always have been. You are describing a postmil position.

That makes you postmil, and partial preterist, not full like asterisktom.

 

Correct. I teach my church history and missions history students that the first 3 centuries were full of revival and church planting and the spread of the Gospel. How else could the entire Middle East and much of Europe have become Christian by the time of the Council of Nicea in AD 325!

Polycarp and Ignatius were both great men of God, fully orthodox, and not preterist.

 

Of course! But we have the complete Scriptures.

 

You're premil. I've read and heard many things about the second coming, tribulation, millennium , Israel, Ezekiel's temple, saints ruling over subdued sinners, etc, etc.

What do you believe?

 

I'm dispensational, premil and pretrib Other than that, are you asking about all of those subjects?

 

Amil, & P-Preterist believe that Jesus comes in glory for resurrection, judgment & the NH&NE.

The premil has 1,000 years of ?? dispensation ?? after the second coming & before the NH&NE.
The pretrib has the tribulation after the second coming. Where are the believers? Do unresurrected people suffer the trib? Or when are the unregenerate raised for judgment?
Is there a millennium temple? Are Israel & the Church separate? Is Israel the wife of Jehovah & the Church the bride of Christ?

People who advocate a future millennium seem very confused, & usually very dogmatic. As you are very clear on what you believe, & presumably teach, what do you believe & teach?

You must have a basic outline of the future - please tell us.

===============
Incidentally my understanding of post-mil is of a thousand years of Gospel peace & progress before the second coming. I do not believe that. I hold that the present age is the millennium - amil. It may be the difference between UK & US theology.

 

Are you saying they did not?

Who were those entrusted with the writings and preserved them for centuries?

Your scriptures are no more or less “complete” then they had.

Chances are they, by virtue of being eyewitnesses of the eyewitnesses of Christ and the Apostles had even a purer and perhaps less biased, by centuries of excess and perversion, understanding.

Therefore, it seems important to see and consider the thinking of those, and as agreement is found with Scriptures (as throughout Ploycarp’s letters are found) consider their statements factually reflect their teaching.

 

One final coming, commonly called the second coming.

Your nit-picking is not helpful to a serious theological discussion.

It is usual to refer to - "Jesus coming in glory at the end of time for resurrection & judgment, & establishing a glorious new heaven & new earth, the home of righteousness." as the second coming, or the return. The first coming was his incarnation.

We read of God "coming" for judgment or blessing & coming to receive us at death. (John 14) Specifically he came as prophesied to judge this generation.

 

Jesus states in John 12 that He DID NOT come to judge the world.

That happens at the second coming and millennial reign.

Acts 17 he will come to judge the world, 1 Corinthians 6 believer’s judge the world WITH Him.

 

All you are showing is your failure to understand simple English.

 

Well now, everyone just stop debating its settled.

And a third temple, a return to animal sacrifices, a rapture, and a one man world dictator is not simply defeated?


Justin Martyr in his Dialogue with Trypho, chapter 80 Justin defended the position of Historic Premillennialism, but added that "many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise" (ANF, vol. 1, p. 239).

Imagine that, I wonder why he didn't say, with simple exegesis, all other views are defeated.

 

I know its really helped me...to understand what your theology does to ones temperament

 

Well at least your post documents that the position of the early church was premillennial.

It is important to note that though there is no documentation that I can recall of Justin Martyr being schooled by the Apostle John, his friend, Polycarp, was, and was also premillennial.

 

Who condemned you? All I said is I understand now, anything past that is speculation.

I have learned quite a bit, things that you say are untrue. So you will never see it as "learning"

 

What did Polycarp say that supports premillennialism?