". . .you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

The immediate context of this passage should be taken into consideration. Our Lord Jesus was speaking to a *specific* group of *People* who were present at the Lord's statements. Some were following Yahweh and appropriating the Scriptures into their lives with sincerity and a desire to follow Him. Others were adherents to the Traditions of Men. Some were *already* sheep, others were not. This is not speaking about some odd *preexisting* fold of (pre)eternal existence. Our Lord Jesus is speaking in the present tense--Those who can presently hear his voice--are either *currently* sheep or they are not. Those who are in right relationship with the Father *WILL ALSO* hear the SON.

 

Dude........
I doubt ANYONE is buying what you are selling here.
You spent time arguing about the cardiovascular effort demanded to SNORE in order to prove a point of Theology??????

Frankly, That's pathetic.

1Ti 6:4
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.
You are playing games with parts of speech.........T.C.

NO ONE IS BUYING THIS.

Perhaps, you assume everyone who disagrees with your Theology is so irreparably stupid that they can't see this.
You are officially suggesting that I strike you as one with a less than third grade command of English language and grammar.
That's your argument?

Previously, T.C. you sounded like an intelligent guy making a rather cunning and tricky argument which you threw against the wall hoping it might stick.......Hoping no one would call you on it.

Fair enough:
I've thrown pasta against a wall hoping it would stick too...thinking maybe, just maybe, no one would call me on this one. I don't blame you for trying. I've tried it myself.

But you got called on this one.
You are a smart enough guy.....I'm not going to deceitfully suggest you have less than a third-grade education as you so graciously suggested about me......(just like Christ would have done no doubt.)

I'm telling you this in order to preserve the (actually quite significant) respect you presently possess on this board....this argument is a loser for you.

It won't stick.

No one is going to buy the idea that action verbs are essentially synonymous with a Biblically defined definition of "works" as opposed to "grace"......it was a nice try, but take my advice and give it up. Insisting upon it degrades you.

 

We are not your friends........and never will be from the time the semi-gnostics murdered Michael Servetus till now, we know the cloth you are cut from. From the time the "Reformers" began torturing the Anabaptists and drowning their women and children in frozen rivers, we know what semi-gnostics are all about.
We know full well that Calvinists happily spilled the blood of dissenters in the past, I've no illusions you wouldn't do it in the future...ask Aaron....

Don't call us your friends...
We're dissenters from your Augustine-inspired Semi-Gnosticism desperately hoping you won't achieve the political power sufficient to murder non-determinists again.

 

Seriously, this is your argument???
"You're stupid Heir.....and you don't understand third-grade grammar....blah blah blah...
non-determinists are so stupid....blah blah blah..."

Idiots...didn't pass third grade...blah, blah, blah...
That's the sum-total of your argument.....
You seem to think we haven't heard this brilliant line of argument before.
I'd say get more creative, because at this point, I'm simply bored by you.

I'll listen to some Christ-honoring music on the radio and come back hoping you say something interesting.

 

"Can you imagine?!"

Its only a shock and surprise that God is "half of a jerk" to folks who expected him to be a complete jerk.


The other side of the coin I wouldn't be surprised if God were a complete hero who sets his love on all.

You see False Humility is cute, trying to pick up on the crumbs of actual faith.

Sincerity? you don't have it son.....not yet.

 

I never hated God....
I was raised in a Godly Christian home knowing and understanding the majesty and wonder and grace of God.
I never hated him....

I pity your impoverished philosophy full of God-hatred.

That was stupid.
From a child I knew the Holy Scriptures which can make you wise unto salvation:
2Ti 3:14
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
I had a Godly witness, a Lois and a Eunice to raise me up in the fear and admonition of the Lord.
I'm sad that your upbringing was so Spiritually pathetic and impoverished.
Mine (provided by non-Calvinist parents) was not....
I NEVER hated God as you seemed to..
How pathetically sad for you. My parents loved me and read Scripture and raised me in the fear and admonition of the Lord, therefore, I never ran from him as you claim.

Good. God is gracious.

Easily...
Because I know the Scriptures, and therefore I understand that God made man in his OWN IMAGE. God made man, and loved mankind and he at his first advent BECAME a man in order to save him from his sins.
God LOVES his image-bearer...so much in fact, that he became one to save him from his sins.
It's simple.
You wouldn't understand that perhaps, not being from a Godly parentage which actually taught you the love of God...and the Word of God....but I was fortunate.
I'm not a Gnostic heretic:
It's easy for me to imagine that God doesn't hate mankind. Even sinners.
I'm not a "Calvinist".

I'm not a semi-Gnostic.

I know that nothing in the Scripture implies that God loathes his image-bearer.
He loves his image-bearer, and doesn't consider physicality, matter or the material universe evil.
He created it, and intends to save it just as he loved and created man-kind...hence he incarnated in the likeness of human flesh to redeem him.

So, sorry, no, I don't relate to your predisposition towards heresy.

You do not believe that you are the "least deserving" creature on Earth....No one believes that about themselves. I work in a prison full of child-rapists....do you REALLY believe that???

No, you don't....and you think we're stupid enough to believe that you actually think that.

That statement isn't holy, it isn't humble, it isn't righteous...
It's simply OBTUSE.

 

Christ Himself assumed He was speaking to people who were already born-again (and some were not born-again VS 26.-- also "Hirelings, thieves"). It's quite simple really. You and many others who claim this passage is some pre-eternal sheep fold passage, eisegete the text by imposing your theological framework.

Christ is simply saying, "those who are truly born-again amongst you WILL follow me," (John 10:4). They belong to Christ, because they Belong to the Father. He speaks of "God-fearers"-Gentiles who are also born-again--Later in the passage (Vs. 16).

Once again, this is present tense dialogue with people that would understand and be in direct relationship with what our Lord Jesus is speaking on.

 

Once again, you impose your theological framework into the text instead of letting the text speak for itself. Christ said he shall be saved--as in finding safety. The "thieves and robbers" were Israel's "shepherds" (vs.8) (leaders) who brought no safety (Physical/Spiritual or otherwise) at all. The context of this stems from Chapter 9, where the leaders wanted to kick out the man whom Christ healed. Our Lord Jesus is defending that man and gives confidence to His sheep in the present tense that He will lead them, bring them safely along the way, and will not cast them out.

You think this chapter is about election and you are dead wrong. Read Chapter 9-10 together. Stop eisegeting the text.

 

I don't hate you at all. I don't even know you. I didn't imply that I hate you. I just have zero faith in your proclaimed warm feelings towards us non-Calvinists.

 

Calvinists are so cute.
Boastfully beating their chests in the street so we can all see how humble you are. These public protestations of your own sinfulness. I've seen the Calvinist "I am more pious because I wallow in more self-loathing" game. That's the bit I'm not buying.
No one is suggesting we aren't or weren't all sinners in need of a savior. I just never bought into the Calvinists need to competitively flagellate myself publically, always publically and "humbly" insisting on being the WORST sinner ever. Truth is, you were probably not much worse before you knew Christ than many many many others. Calvinists just love to publically demonstrate their pious self-loathing. I've never bought into the need to do that. It's a private competition betwixt yourselves to demonstrate that you know you were the worst person ever born.
It's a false humility and a conceit.