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Featured Do we hacve fallen sin natures or not now?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Feb 29, 2020.

  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What do you mean by "nature's"?
     
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  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Like you I believe in freewill but I do not believe man has fallen because man has no place to fall from to start with. Neither did Adam.
    Deu_24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
    This verse above proves man is not responsible for the sins of there fathers. Therefore no one has inherited Adam's sin as Calvinism claims..
    MB
     
  3. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Oh, so we do not bear Adam's image the world around and babies don't die. Rotten deal then, isn't it?
     
  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think that. We do not bear Adam's sin. We are not born sinners. Born in sin yes. No where in scripture does it ever say we do bare Adam's sin. Prove me wrong.
    MB
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    1 Corinthians 15:22
     
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The spiritual non material aspect of Man!
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The soul?
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The part of Mankind that became spiritual dead and corrupted by the Fall!
     
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You are describing, not defining.

    When you say "nature" do you mean man is created with a body, a soul, a spirit, and a nature?

    I know we use the word a lot but I am not sure what you mean by it. What part of us is the "nature"?

    A verse using the term would help as historically "nature" is a debated philosophical term (similar to some usages of "person") which can be a "loaded" word.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Galatians 5:19-23
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    OK, I can agree here but why do we not just use biblical words. The flesh vs the spirit seems much clearer than talking about "fallen natures".

    We are of the flesh and need to be born of the Spirit.
     
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Flesh is our fallen nature
     
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  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Death entered the world nothing about inheriting Adam's sin. Be sides death is a blessing when your saved and old and in pain.
    MB
     
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  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We all save for Jesus were and are under the curse and effects of the Fall!
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    But the Bible says that Adam was created flesh. Are you saying Adam was created "with a fallen nature"?
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Nope, had a sinless nature before he fell!
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    So are you saying that the Bible is wrong and he was not created "flesh" or are you saying that "flesh" does not in fact mean "sinful nature".
     
  18. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come (Born) of a woman, come (Born) under law, that those under law he may redeem, that the adoption of sons we may receive; Gal 4:4,5

    according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love, having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, Eph 1:4,5

    Can one not see from that above that the man to be created was going to have to be redeemed? That before he was created in the image of his creator he was going to need to be, Born again?

    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground. From Gen 2:7

    nay, but, O man, who art thou that art answering again to God? shall the thing formed say to Him who did form it, Why me didst thou make thus? hath not the potter authority over the clay, out of the same lump to make the one vessel to honour, and the one to dishonour?

    Did not the potter, God, form the man, clay, to be exactly what he was? Adam was the means unto the the post above to line.

    Adam did his job.

    ________________________________________________________________________________________________

    so also it hath been written, 'The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit, but that which is spiritual is not first, but that which was natural, afterwards that which is spiritual.
    and, according as we did bear the image of the earthy, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly.
    1 Cor 15:45,46,49

    I want to add. IMHO that is the gospel of the kingdom of God.

    See 1 Cor 15:50

    Compare what is written above to Daniel chapters 2 and 7. Who are those at the end of those chapters. The re-born ones.

    The plan of God before the foundation of the world.
     
    #98 percho, Apr 18, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
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  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    So God did not make Adam "flesh" as Scripture states?

    I am trying to follow you, Y1, not debating the issue but trying to see where you stand.

    You said that the "flesh" refers to sinful nature. Scripture says Adam was created "flesh". But then you say Adam was not created with a "sinful nature".

    Perhaps you could show in the Bible when Adam became flesh?
     
  20. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    BTW again IMHO there are only two vessels from the lump. The first Adam and the last Adam.
     
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