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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by atpollard, Sep 20, 2020.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another "taint so" post.
    Total Spiritual inability has been shown to be bogus, recall Matthew 23:13?
    "created trust" by irresistible grace is a fiction, not found in scripture.
     
  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Why? Because he said you didn't exegete the passage as requested, which, by the way, you didn't?
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Who ever resisted getting saved that God was saving?
     
  4. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Again, you are connecting dots that don't connect.
     
  5. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Very clearly. I posted that verse proving that it "showed" no such thing ... and you ignored my post and changed the subject. Just like you ignored my response to your "exegesis" and changed the subject.
     
  6. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Even if you are going to ignore my support, you should at least defend your own position:

    Where is the scripture support for "we choose to put our trust in that truth* or not"?
    *"that truth" = "Jesus is God" (the truth revealed to Peter and that Lydia's heart was opened to)

    Do you have scripture that clearly refutes the claim "True faith is a wholehearted trust that the Holy Spirit creates in me" on the basis that the Holy Spirit does not create trust in people?
    It seems only fair to offer you an opportunity to present a scriptural rebuttal.
     
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  7. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    But the scripture you quoted......... 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

    Shouldn't it be backwards? you get salvation and righteousness first and as a result they will believe and as a result mouth will confess?

    Its like you gave us a cheat sheet for dismissing your theology.
     
  8. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    "Q. According to God’s righteous judgment we deserve punishment both now and in eternity"

    Chapter and Verse? This sounds like a falsely humble person's opinion.
     
  9. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Three observations ...
    1. It sure is a good thing Verse 10 stands completely alone and neither God nor Paul gave it to us as part of anything larger that might actually be attempting to make a point. Otherwise this "cookie cutter" Theology score keeping would be much harder and we would have to move past "scripture pong".
    2. You do not need a cheat sheet to dismiss my theology. Try just saying "I don't buy it." Then I will respond like this: [shrug] "Ok." and you have defeated all of my clever attempts at proselytization. I am not God or your mother, so I am only responsible to tell the truth. I am not responsible for anyone believing it or not believing it.
    3. "and" does not mean "then" (I can look it up in Greek if you want, but I am pretty sure the result will be the same).

    (... and he still should have defended his own beliefs.)
     
  10. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I will provide the details if you wish, but this is starting at Part 2 of the Catechism, so "we" who deserve punishment are the sinners from Part 1.

    Do you still want "Chapter and Verse"?
     
    #90 atpollard, Sep 23, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We as fallen sinners do not deserve wrath?
     
  12. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Since this was Part 2 of the catechism (the section dealing with "Deliverance") I decided to go back to the start and look closer at Part 1. I offer for your consideration, the opening:

    Question 1. What is your only comfort in life and in death?

    Answer. That I am not my own,[1] but belong—body and soul, in life and in death—[2] to my faithful Savior, Jesus Christ.[3]


    He has fully paid for all my sins with his precious blood,[4] and has set me free from the tyranny of the devil.[5] He also watches over me in such a way[6] that not a hair can fall from my head without the will of my Father in heaven;[7] in fact, all things must work together for my salvation.[8]


    Because I belong to him, Christ, by his Holy Spirit, assures me of eternal life[9] and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready from now on to live for him.[10]


    [1] 1 Corinthians 6:19-20
    [2] Romans 14:7-9
    [3] 1 Corinthians 3:23 ; Titus 2:14
    [4] 1 Peter 1:18-19 ; 1 John 1:7-9 ; 1 John 2:2
    [5] John 8:34-36 ; Hebrews 2:14-15 ; 1 John 3:1-11
    [6] John 6:39-40 ; John 10:27-30 ; 2 Thessalonians 3:3; 1 Peter 1:5
    [7] Matthew 10:29-31 ; Luke 21:16-18
    [8] Romans 8:28
    [9] Romans 8:15-16 ; 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 ; 2 Corinthians 5:5; Ephesians 1:13-14
    [10] Romans 8:1-17
     
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  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Again, you are denying the obvious. People entering the kingdom are seeking God.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Your claims are noted. Matthew 23:13 has lost people entering the kingdom, thus seeking God. That proves total spiritual inability is as bogus as a three dollar bill.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You need to address the verses I have cited time and time again.

    What do we need to do to obtain eternal life? John 6:29 says the work God requires of us is to believe in the One whom He sent.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God knows that left to ourselves all would deny Jesus as Lord!
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    John 6:29 says the work we need to do is to believe in the One God sent.
     
  18. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Point out the word “lost” in your translation of that verse, or admit it is not there.
     
  19. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I addressed the first (Matthew 23:13) in another topic and again in this one. I am waiting for a response to me addressing of the first verse before wasting time with the second. If you would really like a conversation, then please start a topic and we can discuss one verse at a time and move on to as many as you would like to discuss. However, I get the feeling that you like to post those verses but have no real desire to discuss them (or even post what they actually say).
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Those not in the kingdom are lost. In Christ = saved, not in Christ = not saved. Christianity 101

    This is the sort of "deny everything" defense liberals use. Sad
     
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