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Featured Romans 8:8

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 2, 2022.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    there are a lot of SAVED people who are also "in the flesh", like the carnal Christians that Paul wrote to in Corinth! Paul also himself strruggled with sins after his conversion, which is clear in Romans 7
     
    #21 SavedByGrace, Jun 4, 2022
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    #22 SavedByGrace, Jun 4, 2022
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    You actually think Romans 7 is unique only to Paul and applies to no one else?
     
    #23 kyredneck, Jun 4, 2022
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Folks, did Kyrednect just admit "en" is frequently translated as "with?" Yes, in the motif of changing the subject and hurling false charges.
     
    #24 Van, Jun 4, 2022
  5. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    This is what SavedByGrace wrote "there are a lot of SAVED people who are also "in the flesh", like the carnal Christians that Paul wrote to in Corinth! Paul also himself strruggled with sins after his conversion, which is clear in Romans 7"

    How did you miss that?
     
    #25 Silverhair, Jun 4, 2022
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The location is where we set our mind, with fleshly desires or with spiritual contemplation. Thus, with is contextual.

    Did I say grammar does not matter in translation? Nope, so yet another implied false charge.

    Here are some of the "interpretive translations" of the vague phrase "in or with the flesh!"

    1. "living the life of the flesh,"
    2. "identify with your old nature"
    3. "ruled by your desires,"
    4. "ruled by your sinful selves."
    5. "live as your human nature tells you to;"
    6. "live according to the flesh"
    7. "ruled by the power of sin"
    8. "in the realm of the flesh"
    9. "doing what your sinful old selves want you to do"
    10. "living the way the body wants,"

    Context matters!!
     
    #26 Van, Jun 4, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2022
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I see it has been suggested that the use of "en" to convey the meaning of with in the sense of utilizing something is outside the usage found in scripture. Thus, according to this assertion, Paul could not mean utilizing the flesh rather than utilizing godliness.

    Consider Romans 1:4 where "en" is used to convey that Jesus utilized the power of the Spirit of Holiness.

    Or Romans 1:12 where Paul uses "en" to convey that people are with each other when they are thinking alike.

    Or to describe an aspect of behavior, i.e. with long-suffering, Romans 9:22.

    Lastly, another utilization verse, Romans 10:9, i.e. with your mouth.
     
    #27 Van, Jun 4, 2022
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 1:18 the preposition is translated WITH in many versions, which is in the dative. those who say otherwise don't really know GREEK!
     
    #28 SavedByGrace, Jun 4, 2022
  9. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    There are Christians (yes we all sin)

    There are non-Christians (true sinners)
     
    #29 Marooncat79, Jun 4, 2022
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Born anew Christians can set their minds of worldly or fleshly desires. That is why we strive to abstain from evil.

    False doctrines use vague words and phrases to pour their bogus conjecture into the text.
     
    #30 Van, Jun 4, 2022
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    you say "true sinners". there are many unchirstians who live more "moral" lives than many "christians" do!
     
    #31 SavedByGrace, Jun 4, 2022
  12. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Again -according to the Bible

    there are 2 types of people

    the Converted

    the Unconverted
     
    #32 Marooncat79, Jun 4, 2022
  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    and within the "converted", those who are backslidden. and within the "unconverted", those who are seeking the Lord
     
    #33 SavedByGrace, Jun 4, 2022
  14. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    εν always takes its object in the dative. If you didn't know that, now you do. And, the object of εν (outside of its having to be in the dative) does vary quite a bit... and the translation is not simply up to your whim.

    The Archangel
     
    #34 The Archangel, Jun 4, 2022
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Grammatically it is locative, and translated "in."

    The Archangel
     
    #35 The Archangel, Jun 4, 2022
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    It's use in the context determines how it is translated into English.

    You are trying to teach granny to suck eggs! :Whistling
     
    #36 SavedByGrace, Jun 4, 2022
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    At least 10 published translations disagree. :)
     
    #37 Van, Jun 4, 2022
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Remember the context is always important
     
    #38 SavedByGrace, Jun 4, 2022
  19. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Are they Christian, or lost?

    The Bible says that there are none that seeks after God, no not one
     
    #39 Marooncat79, Jun 4, 2022
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    and the same Bible tells the lost, "seek the Lord while He may be found"! this is not only to the elect
     
    #40 SavedByGrace, Jun 4, 2022
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