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Romans 8:8

SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Marooncat79 said:
Correct. Lost people are “in the flesh”. Therefore they can do nothing within themselves to please God until God gives them the faith to believe the Gospel
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there are a lot of SAVED people who are also "in the flesh", like the carnal Christians that Paul wrote to in Corinth! Paul also himself strruggled with sins after his conversion, which is clear in Romans 7
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
kyredneck said:
Good grief, Calvinism has zilch to do with it. Van the sick man sees his boogeyman everywhere.
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Folks, did Kyrednect just admit "en" is frequently translated as "with?" Yes, in the motif of changing the subject and hurling false charges.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
You actually think Romans 7 is unique only to Paul and applies to no one else?
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This is what SavedByGrace wrote "there are a lot of SAVED people who are also "in the flesh", like the carnal Christians that Paul wrote to in Corinth! Paul also himself strruggled with sins after his conversion, which is clear in Romans 7"

How did you miss that?
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The Archangel said:
It does neither.

You seem not to grasp that translating εν + dative is not left open to your whim. The usage here is clearly locative (ie. a location). If you were correct (which you most certainly are not), you would have to translate "and they put His body in the tomb" as "and the put His body with the tomb," which is--of course--absurd.

Translating Greek is far more than looking up words in some lexicon. Grammar matters to translation.

The Archangel
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The location is where we set our mind, with fleshly desires or with spiritual contemplation. Thus, with is contextual.

Did I say grammar does not matter in translation? Nope, so yet another implied false charge.

Here are some of the "interpretive translations" of the vague phrase "in or with the flesh!"

1. "living the life of the flesh,"
2. "identify with your old nature"
3. "ruled by your desires,"
4. "ruled by your sinful selves."
5. "live as your human nature tells you to;"
6. "live according to the flesh"
7. "ruled by the power of sin"
8. "in the realm of the flesh"
9. "doing what your sinful old selves want you to do"
10. "living the way the body wants,"

Context matters!!
 
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V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I see it has been suggested that the use of "en" to convey the meaning of with in the sense of utilizing something is outside the usage found in scripture. Thus, according to this assertion, Paul could not mean utilizing the flesh rather than utilizing godliness.

Consider Romans 1:4 where "en" is used to convey that Jesus utilized the power of the Spirit of Holiness.

Or Romans 1:12 where Paul uses "en" to convey that people are with each other when they are thinking alike.

Or to describe an aspect of behavior, i.e. with long-suffering, Romans 9:22.

Lastly, another utilization verse, Romans 10:9, i.e. with your mouth.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Folks, did Kyrednect just admit "en" is frequently translated as "with?" Yes, in the motif of changing the subject and hurling false charges.
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Matthew 1:18 the preposition is translated WITH in many versions, which is in the dative. those who say otherwise don't really know GREEK!
 
M

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
there are a lot of SAVED people who are also "in the flesh", like the carnal Christians that Paul wrote to in Corinth! Paul also himself strruggled with sins after his conversion, which is clear in Romans 7
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There are Christians (yes we all sin)

There are non-Christians (true sinners)
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Born anew Christians can set their minds of worldly or fleshly desires. That is why we strive to abstain from evil.

False doctrines use vague words and phrases to pour their bogus conjecture into the text.
 
The Archangel

The Archangel

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Matthew 1:18 the preposition is translated WITH in many versions, which is in the dative. those who say otherwise don't really know GREEK!
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εν always takes its object in the dative. If you didn't know that, now you do. And, the object of εν (outside of its having to be in the dative) does vary quite a bit... and the translation is not simply up to your whim.

The Archangel
 
The Archangel

The Archangel

Well-Known Member
Van said:
The location is where we set our mind, with fleshly desires or with spiritual contemplation. Thus, with is contextual.

Did I say grammar does not matter in translation? Nope, so yet another implied false charge.

Here are some of the "interpretive translations" of the vague phrase "in or with the flesh!"

1. "living the life of the flesh,"
2. "identify with your old nature"
3. "ruled by your desires,"
4. "ruled by your sinful selves."
5. "live as your human nature tells you to;"
6. "live according to the flesh"
7. "ruled by the power of sin"
8. "in the realm of the flesh"
9. "doing what your sinful old selves want you to do"
10. "living the way the body wants,"

Context matters!!
Click to expand...

Grammatically it is locative, and translated "in."

The Archangel
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
The Archangel said:
εν always takes its object in the dative. If you didn't know that, now you do. And, the object of εν (outside of its having to be in the dative) does vary quite a bit... and the translation is not simply up to your whim.

The Archangel
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It's use in the context determines how it is translated into English.

You are trying to teach granny to suck eggs! :Whistling
 
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