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I agree! I think "Calves" would be much more appropriate, as we debate about milk and meat.

Now you’re suggesting Moses was addressing his words to someone who wasn’t part of God’s people. If the words were addressed to “Israel”, then Israel must have been able to oppose God’s will. You’ve given yourself a lose-lose proposition.

Yes, I do. God’s will is that I don’t commit adultery, including even looking with list on a woman. I have lusted, and I expect I could do it again, if I don’t exercise self control (according to Paul). So if I can lust, and if I can’t oppose God’s will, then God must want me to lust, which...

He was definitely writing to His chosen people—who could obviously resist His grace! Thanks for pointing that out!

I don’t see anything in those definitions that would be wrong to apply to God. Neither do I see anything in them that suggests God only loved those who loved Him. “For while we were yet sinners (did not love God), Christ died for us.” I understand your aversion to Calvinism, but you’ll do...

Authority? Aren't we given authority to be righteous when God tells us to be righteous, which He does constantly in the bible? We might not have the ability, but I lean toward that inability only affecting the avoidance of death. [Rom 5:6 NET] 6 For while we were still helpless, at the right...

I don't think I agree with this. God DOES lose power when He creates a being that can choose good or evil, which He did. He loses power over that person's choices. However, the word "sovereign" allows for disobedience, though it follows with justice against the disobedience.

Can you explain why you don't like the use of the word "sovereign" to describe God? Does the concept of sovereignty appear in scripture? I think it does, but not in the same way, perhaps, as the more reformed folks.

Maybe it's not complicated, but not what you make it out to be. If God is both all-wise and all-powerful, can He not both remain sovereign and allow His subjects to do something besides what He wills? You might go view my previous thread on "What is "Sovereignty"?", where it was discussed in...

Thank you, Bro Glen! I'm concerned, though, that the grace is an extra part of the salvation, not included in the gospel itself (which most would agree with, I think), but if it is true, then God's general call also becomes a specific call made in general terms, as if all people may accept, but...

I look forward to the post later! Dirty, yes, but so does being in the world, yet we are called to do it. If Irresistible grace is useless, as I propose, then it isn't something biblical writers would spend time on. That would make it an unbiblical, or worldly, doctrine. So let's get a little...

A better question would be, “When does God decide mankind needs saving—before or after they exist? Thanks for sharing that, @Revmitchell. would you please explain how that applies to irresistible grace? I think I see it, but explain just in case. Thanks

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. Please also show why it's relevant to this particular discussion (see OP again, if you need to). Thanks

This is off topic. Unless you want to show how effectual calling is related to irresistible grace, please start a different thread. (Hint: "TULIP" is not enough of an answer.) Thanks.

I can, but I already gave my objection to the doctrine in the OP. If you have a problem with that, you can quote what the bible says, then identify why you think I'm not correct. (That's how conversations are supposed to go, instead of throwing a bunch of new stuff out and asking someone to...

While I support the statement in my OP, I disagree with your reasoning, MB. The reason it's a useless doctrine is that it doesn't do anything for anyone. What you gave was the reason why it isn't true, which is ok to bring up here, but there have already been several posts with scriptures...

Tautologies are like that.

Can you tell us either why that description is helpful or why it is correct? Just pasting the confession with scripture proofs isn’t really helping anyone to understand.

That’s a decent recapitulation of the doctrine, along with the understanding of the accompanying doctrine of total depravity, but hardly a defense of either, nor does it answer to the necessity of irresistible grace. It just makes you feel good about your position in Christ. Who are you going...

I guess this is the place to show that! When I or someone else misuse, in your opinion, a scripture to deny irresistible grace, please explain your position on that scripture. Thanks for jumping back in.