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Jesus already talked about the great banquette where many were invited but refused to come. Did he tell his angels to go out their and just drag them in? Lk14:15-24 And if he issued invitations doesn't that tell you he intended for them to attend? Or do you think that God has a party, gives out...

Got to stop you right there. She didn't force you against your will. YOU SAW something MORE desirable than being alone. She wasn't abhorrent to you. You didn't hate her. Your falling in love with her was something you willingly chose to do. You're saying as a Calvinists all sinners hate and...

Don't give me this ridiculous "Do you?" You said God changes their will against their will and claimed you don't know anyone he did that too saying they don't love God! Well they wouldn't even know that they did genuinely love God unless they were given a free will choice to do so or not to do...

Well irresistible grace is being forced to which violates God's character of LOVE. Nonsense! I had read what you said. In your post #19 you stated God does not 'force His will' on anyone, and said "He changes our will by giving us a new heart, a new spirit, a new birth so that we delight to do...

Are all Moslems blowing themselves up in the street? Are all Catholics and Calvinists physically persecuting those to whom they disagree? Yes the flesh can be very religious and can go right to the bottom of the barrel in exhibiting physical aggression. Do all who have zeal do that however? I'm...

LOL! Well I think if I filled up an auditorium of 1,000 people not religious and the question was asked if one changed the will of another without their permission to a position they were beforehand against would that have been they forced their will upon the other? Yes or no? I know who would...

Oh boy? OK Martin Oh boy! :rolleyes: You didn't happen to read as well Paul's statements in Rom 10:1-2 which states, Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For...

But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about your statement prior which says, God does not 'force His will' on anyone; I didn't deny that you believe in absolute total depravity in the way that you do. I told you if God locks in a total change against one not wanting him...

Yes and you notice Jesus didn't give him any instructions until he first made certain acknowledgements? Paul in vs 5 asks, "Who are you Lord?" He didn't even know it was Jesus but knew it had to be God. Jesus answered, "I am Jesus who you persecute!" He added on that it's hard for him to kick...

And herer's another thing. Paul said he was shown mercy for he did it in unbelief. 1 Tim 1:13 He had a heart that wanted to serve God and was diligent in doing so. But Calvinists would say he would have to have been born again to even want to serve God.

Aren't Calvinists always quick to say men don't want God? If language means anything that means what they want or don't want. So if he changes their will from having them not wanting him then what other word can be used except FORCE? Isn't it absolutely stunning how some of you dear people seek...

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Acts 2:40

Problem is you don't prove the will of a person is in bondage yes even quoting very true verses that the unsaved are slaves to sin. People in bondage by their free will may want deliverance and want change.

And this poster misses the whole point of Rom 1: 18-20 for the the whole conclusion of the text is why men are without excuse. Men see all of creation and that alone God says should be the thing that sparks at least a seeking of God. Instead of seeking God these particular groups would suppress...

I say it's not. I say it's talking about Paul's experience as one under the law before salvation. Romans 6 had already said Christians have "died to sin" because of their union with Christ.Interesting that Calvinists are quick to discuss spiritual death as in if you're spiritual dead you can't...

Excellent post! :Thumbsup

No, no, no...You're trying to lump all of your theology into this and saying it's all needed to make the above possible. Non-Calvinsits believes Jesus sets us free from sin AND the bondage to sin and even most Calvinists I'd say know this. I know you've qualified your statements as [Sarchasm]...

Well we're talking about free will not free Will and the bondage of the flesh. It's you Calvinists which are desperately seeking to make the will and the bondage the same as if the will could never want outside of bondage. Thus you have your total depravity where your everything, everything...

I'm looking forward to our dear brother's answer to that...if he will...and then join the two together and what does one have. :Thumbsup

Sheer nonsense Cassidy! Free will has always, I mean ALWAYS been about making choices from the Garden of Eden and beyond. You can't talk about free will really without choice options. Or you're left with free will about what? We're not left in a vacuum. God has provided new information or...