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Yes but enlightenment in contained IN the Gospel itself....it's the power of God to those who believe and is provided for everyone or if you want to put it this way contained within it's message is the capacity to believe...FOR ALL. They can reject the light and refuse to believe or accept it...

Nope. Jesus in the same passage told ONE and ALL be careful what they hear! Mark 4: 23 Any need to say that if he controls everything? I think not. It'd be automatic.

Well Dave I'd have to suggest you're forcing that as an interpretation. I get it you need to do that to support your belief BUT the new birth is realized how? By believing! Some of the bad soil were believers and he that believes shall be saved.

Sorry Yeshua! I'd say the only reason you're saying that is that you have to, in order to have your Calvinistic or your OSAS doctrine to hold. Jesus said however they actually BELIEVED and they did so for some time. We've been told from maybe your side that no one can believe unto salvation...

Well Atpollard I take exception with what you're claiming Jesus "exactly" said. Jesus talked about 3 types of bad soil and 1 type of good one. 1)The soil that's the path...2) the soil that's rocky ground...3) the soil with thorns and of course 4) the good soil. The people chose what type of soil...

My Statement Because they're willfully ignorant by choice. That is once the gospel is presented they can yield to the Spirit of God who brings enlightenment contained in that very message. atpollard's quotation [2 Corinthians 4:3-4 NASB] 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to...

I won't claim that same about you the other way for I won't go down in a ditch to almost insinuate Calvinists aren't Christian. God bless you my friend!

Or...there's Biblical election but just not the way you're defining it. :D

I'd say rather the Spirit appeals to ALL to be saved. God works in a measure on the want to but ultimately the want to or the will to is up to the individual not God. Paul said it himself, " Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of...

Well Yeshua no offense but what is it about Jesus lamenting and crying over Jerusalem that HE WOULD HAVE SAVED both they and their children BUT THEY would not, that...you don't understand. That doesn't signify to you they could have been saved? Yes God has the final say about Salvation but...

Yes and God grieves for those who didn't receive when it was his will that they do so all along.

Because they're willfully ignorant by choice. That is once the gospel is presented they can yield to the Spirit of God who brings enlightenment contained in that very message. And that LIGHT belongs to all. Some men however don't want the truth so they go further down into darkness. Jesus (God)...

Simple. But I'd suggest some of you dear people are wrongly holding a view that "drawing" means Salvation instead of understanding it's only one item in the process of getting to it. If I put an advertisement in the paper that I was selling some product, that's a draw. I can say I drew the whole...

One line answers merely making assertions? OK Cassidy....Um...No it doesn't mean that! :Thumbsup

And you've never heard the ole saying, "You can draw a horse to water but you can't make him drink?" Now you may laugh because of course that's not a scripture BUT the fact is Jesus does draw and does appeal to the hearts of men to come into relationship with God. When they reject him it causes...

Yes so come Calvinists would argue. Others would contend there's no evidence of that whatsoever. :Cool

Yeah...sure is good to know though right that Jesus said, "If I be lifted up from the earth I'll draw all mean unto me!" So...when we preach the gospel aren't we lifting God's message up to men? God's says he'll work through that to whom? ALL MEN...Yeah clear as clear can be!

True but I think it's safe to say God has clearly revealed the way and manner in which Salvation is offered. Well atpollard if you're going to expand a Christian definition like this why not go all the way? 'Elect according to the foreknowledge of God' :Cool I likewise don't believe in OSAS...

From this point on you lost me but it does kind of reveal what your piece was all about. You referred to all the many things saints have to endure but then you seem to overlap it all by making the emphasis about those who hold to a Calvinistic election way of thinking as if to say the...

No I think it's a matter of perspective. There's is the idea of metonymy and even possibly hyperbolic statements are being applied. I'd kindly suggest one has to rightly divide the word of truth to know the difference. One might even say politically, "I hate Hillary supporters" or the reverse...