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Ok, you haven't addressed these facts: "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the...

Agreed. As the Spirit of God has done many marvelous works throughout history, including speaking to Balaam through a dumb Ass. But of course the dumb Ass wasn't born from above.

Does not follow anything I said......

I do not recall scripture stating Abraham had a circumcised heart. Have you? Physical circumcision was a sign of God's Covenant with Abraham through Abraham's faith. Physical circumcision does not prove what is in the heart.

This is your own thinking. No where have you read from scripture 'God reached into the womb and claimed his own'.

You speak of the Old Covenant believers yet you quote scripture dealing with New Covenant acts of God. The scripture you quoted is Israel's future and has nothing to do with the Old Covenant. "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and...

I have considered it, even when I first began to study "born again" twenty years ago, considering context and harmony throughout Scripture. So ask yourself, is being born of the Spirit and being born after the Spirit speaking of the exact same thing? "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD...

Brother I'm liking your post here! You are the first Calvinist I met here who understands Paradise wasn't heaven. And the OT saints could not go into the presence of God until Jesus Christ took away their sins.

Born again has nothing to do with choice, it is solely a New Covenant act of God performed on those who believe(d), both OT saints and NT saints.

Again, you are quoting scripture spoken to New Covenant believers. This makes no sense brother. Born again, Baptism of the Holy Spirit and New Birth are ALL one in the same.

So they were not able to go into the presence of God when they died in faith? Correct?

"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed." (Gal 3:8) You said, "The Old Covenant was also one of grace, as none ever saved were saved by the Law, but by His Grace!"...

Right, they couldn't be. Thus, OT saints were not born again until Jesus Christ was glorified. We are on the same page brother! And you are a Calvinist, right? Amen! Two separate works of the Holy Spirit. One is the rebirth, receiving the living water. The second is receiving the Holy Spirit...

All are saved the same way, by grace through faith. So what is New about the New Covenant?

Can you show this with some Scripture?

Where did you read this? The indwelling baptism of the Holy Spirit is the Rebirth, "Born again" And Paul wrote this to Christians. Why did Hebrews state these died in faith WITHOUT receiving the promises? What promises did they not receive?

Oh my Goodness!!! almost two pages of debate on "born again" vs "born from above". LOL. Really? Don't we all know the word of God states it both ways and they each mean the exact same thing? How about you guys take a stab at the OP, it seems this is a topic most do not want to wade into. I don't...

This is the sticking point. The Holy Spirit in the believer is "born again". You are correct that this came after Jesus Christ was glorified (John 7). So the OT believers could not have been born again. The scripture states that having the new heart would be new covenant. So what the Bible...

I am placing this subject in the Calvinism & Arminianism section because although there are many Non-Cals that believe there is nothing New with the change of heart between the Old and the New, all Cals believe there is nothing New with the change of heart between the Old and the New. A couple...

Amen! Good post!