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No, I am saying that God knows what will happen and He already has a plan in place ahead of time to use each adversity and non-adversity for his glory. God does not fore ordain every action or event and there is nothing in the Bible that says so. Unlike you, I am not saying that God ordains...

It is truthfully recorded, yes. But whether or not the vision refers to an actual event that happened in Heaven is another thing. God seeking the counsel of angels isn't in keeping with the character of a God who is sovereign and all-knowing. In addition, it is language that conveys the...

No, God used it. It doesn't say that God ordained it. God knew it would happen and He used that situation for His glory. God can use adversity and the attacks of the enemy for His glory. It doesn't mean that He ordained or decreed those things to happen.

No, God allowed Satan to sin. God did not decree Satan to sin.

And yet that is exactly what you have advocated for in your posts by saying that God ordains people to sin.

Actually the situation with Job and Joseph speak to God's ability to use things that happen to us for our benefit. You cannot realistically compare those two situations to Adam's sin in the Garden. God did not ordain Joseph or Job to sin, so those stories don't reveal any parallel to the...

Sorry, but I am not in need of your help. You do not instruct me. I am not in need of your counsel. The problem here is your inability to defend your self-contradictory position. Your position is anything but biblical. It is an assault on God's character.

I am not talking about your link. I am talking about YOUR attempt to navigate your claim that God ordains everything that happens, while trying not to admit that your statement would blame God for sinful acts that he allegedly ordains. You cannot say that God ordains every action, but that...

That is not in dispute. And as said before, that is a distraction to the issue at hand. And I am not operating in the realm of philosophy. This isn't really hard. You are trying to use the word "ordain" in a manner that is inconsistent with what it means. You are trying to dodge the...

I don't have time to sit and read 13 pages. The fact remains that your view of God isn't biblical. You claim that God ordains every act, something the Bible does not say. The Bible never presents God's sovereignty as direct cause of every action taken by every person. Right off the bat...

But if God ordains something to happen, if nothing happens that God does not ordain (appoint, decree), then God is the direct cause of any act, sinful or not, since it was His will to ordain it to happen. You cannot escape that unassailable logic.

Not talking about Job. Did God ordain that Adam sin in the Garden? Does God ordain sexual immorality or criminal activity?

The word "ordain" means, "to appoint." They are synonymous terms. They mean the same thing. Other synonyms would be, "order," "prescribe," "decree." You said that nothing happens, nothing comes to pass unless it is ordained by God. That makes God the cause because He ordained...

No, he simply made the recession last longer. His numbers never got above water. He kept us with high unemployment and high taxes. He kept people on government assistance and increased the number of people on gov't assistance. He didn't prevent a depression. He just made the recession...

Yeah, the Communist News Network, that has the lowest ratings in cable news. The channel that lied and lied and lied about the Dossier and Collusion. Trust a bunch of liars and traitors. That's the Liberal way.

No, it wasn't fake news. Just last year, the Democrats were claiming that Obama was the one to credit for the economy being good and unemployment being at record lows. But now you are denying that none of those things that Obama was supposed to get credit for, actually happened and now you...

That is a diversion from what we were talking about. We were not talking about what God allows to happen, but what God ordains to occur. Did God ordain (appoint) the sin of Adam? Did appoint Adam to disobey? Does God ordain child molestation, rape, spousal abuse, homosexual activity...

You can go back to ancient history all you want. But Obama did not improve the economy by any objective, reasonable standard. His policies didn't work and only increased unemployment to 17% Trump has reduced unemployment to between 3%-4%. Liberal policies simply don't work. Obama was a...

It is internally inconsistent to say that God ordains evil actions, but that God is not the cause. You cannot say that everything happens because God ordains (appoints) something to happen, but is not responsible for what he appoints to actually happen. Sorry, but you are contradicting yourself.

What is the difference between saying God ordained it to happen vs. God caused it to happen? If God ordained something to happen, then God is the cause of it. That would make God responsible for the fall in the Garden. It would make God responsible for Adam's disobedience. It would make...