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Why anything is considered EVIL in the Calvinist account of God and creation? If everything is ordained and rendered certain by God for his glory, including moral evil, why not praise God for sin? After all, sin is his will and necessary for his full glorification, right? Why not celebrate...

Ares, I've made no such assertion. God defines Good and evil, but this thread is nearing our limit so I'll not attempt to start a new discussion at this point. Instead I'll start a new thread on the subject of "good and evil" and this "moral standard" so that we can pick up the discussion...

Luke, You seem to think that because there are no other BB members who are pressing you on this point that all classical Arminians (who are not Open Theists) support your conclusions. That is factually incorrect and the reason I alluded to you not being familiar with scholarly views on this...

It is but you haven't realized it yet because you haven't been willing to acknowledge the distinction in our views. You are trying to equate our problems by equating our claims about how God has foreknown and created. Then stop implying that God MUST have created it as He foreknew it would be...

If I knew that I'd be rich. ;)

Yeah, heaven forbid people hear too much about how God love us!!! :eek: It appears based on this response that you haven't read the book, right? Much of the book was his testimony and the things God had taught him in his own life. It is anything but a ear tickling message. This may...

With all due respect, and I really mean that, this response shows me that you have not given a fair hearing to the non-Calvinistic perspective on this. Its fine if you "side" with Calvinism, but you shouldn't do so without first really understanding the scholarly alternative. As I've attempted...

Amy, to clarify further let's look at the example of Rahab, the harlot. Clearly, her faith in the little she knew of the Hebrew God was credited to her as righteousness. So, obviously she wasn't declared righteous because she was an elect Jew or because she lived morally according to the law...

According to their perceptions as my parenthetical statements indicated. True saving righteousness has always been attained through faith alone, but many at that time (and even today for that matter) believe one is declared righteous through morality (law). Paul's effort is to show that the...

Let me try it this way: SCOPE + MEANS = RESULT Israel + Law = Righteousness versus Whosoever + Believes = Righteouness Calvinist seem to think that scriptures which are intended to teach that righteousness is UNATTAINABLE by the first...

Agree? I fundamentally disagree with you on the matter of how you interpret Paul's teachings. Just as Hershel Hobbs, the chairman of the committee charged with writing the BFM, fundamentally disagreed with Reformed Calvinists of his day. We can debate that. We aren't, but we could. Instead...

And I could make the same claim of my views. I have explained to you numerous times that I don't accept the NPP label because I don't agree with what many of them appear to claim, but I also admitted I don't even know what all of the different 'scholars' of this view believe. I've even shown...

Are you saying you have NOT equated your problem with our problem, because that is ALL you have done this entire thread??? Your problem is a question of what God has DETERMINED and our problem is a question of what God has ALLOWED. That is the difference between God decretive and permissive...

And SOMEONE here is a hyperistic determinist who doesn't ever evangelize because he figures its all predetermined. He also doesn't ever really have intimate and personal conversations with God because he still thinks of Him as one big impersonal theological concept, rather than an actual person...

Hmmm, where have I heard this before... :tear:

Guy, I've never even studied the NPP scholars. I first heard about it here a few weeks ago. Even one of the major proponents of the view (NT Wright) said he disagreed with most of those who are now being given that label. I know that because Quantum quoted his article. As I told you...

You don't have to. When you equate your problem with our problem you are equating permissive will with decretive will. It's why they perish that is the distinction you don't want to address. I think we all know why that is. I agree. Who did that and can you quote their actual words? BTW, you...

If read individualistically, as is typical with Western Christians who think everything is about them individually, this verse appears to mean one thing, but when read corporately, as was often the way the Jews of that day addressed each other, it is understood as intended. "But we (Jews)...

The faith response is presumed. We both believe that those drawn do choose to follow Christ, right? This verse doesn't address that though, it just assumes it. But to presume that all who are drawn will respond in faith is an argument from silence, especially when we know that once Christ is...

Who said I had a problem with God sovereignly choosing to un-blind people? That is what he did to Paul, isn't it? Israel was already self-hardened. God simply sealed them in their already hardened condition, with the exception of a remnant of Jews who were chosen to ensure that God's purpose...