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Where did I set up something (or someone) higher than God? Quote my actual words and show how I have made that claim.

You clearly don't know the difference between divine sovereignty and human freedom. May I suggest you study up on that subject.

Oh, and why is it that Aaron is countering Tozer's quote while Guy is embracing it? I'd like to hear you two hash that out. Why are you two responding to this quote in such a different manner?

Sounds like you need to do the discerning because Tozer is NOT a Calvinist and would not affirm the claims of 'compatibilistic' teaching...(i.e. man is free as long as he is doing what he wants, but God is ultimately responsible for determining what man wants.)

Let me break it down for you... "God sovereignly decreed that man should be free." "[God sovereignly decreed for man to be able] to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil." "When he chooses to do evil, he...

Asking more unanswerable questions doesn't prove your theory to be correct, it only introduces more mystery. When we don't know the answer to a question we don't need to invent an answer. Just let scripture stand as it is. I KNOW, you think that it supports your deterministic theories but it...

A.W. Tozer, The Knowledge of the Holy, chapter 22 "The Sovereignty of God" Book can be found online here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0060684127/?tag=baptis04-20

Psalm 42:7 says, "Deep calls unto deep." Only a call from the depths has the power to enable a response from the depths. The gospel is one such call. As AW Tozer said, "The yearning to know what cannot be known, to comprehend the incomprehensible, to touch and taste the unapproachable...

"God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal...

"Humble yourselves and you will be exalted" = "yield control and God will lift you up" As a father, are you 'yielding authority' if you allow your child to freely respond to your command? Or must you physically force your child to obey EVERY time in order to maintain your authority and prove...

As the phrase 'so to speak' indicates, this is an expression which I explained. Do you affirm that God is as 'in control' of the good decisions as the bad ones? Has God determined/fixed the choices of Satan, or is Satan contra-causally free? If you believe Satan is only doing what He was...

So, are you saying that the idea of God playing both sides of the chess board (that which I'm accusing determinists of teaching 'so to speak') is heretical or that my view that he doesn't play both sides, but that he has an actual adversary that he really does defeat is heretical? Let's...

Just food for thought. The Prophet Nahum calls judgment upon Nineveh not too long after Jonah was there. How does that fit with the concept of their being the effectually called elect of God?

We know scripture (which teaches of Satan, the adversary), yes. I'd appreciate you editing your post in which you called my views heretical now that you have conceded this point. Thanks

When one side accuses the other of not affirming "sovereignty" they are simply begging the question, because the very point up for debate is being assumed: Did God, who is sovereign, choose for men to make a contra-causally free choice in regard to their salvation? By the way, you can...

When man sins he is attempting to take control and be his own God. When man humbles himself, gives up, and let's God take control then God chooses to exalt man by his Grace and for His Glory. Thus, when man sins its all the man's fault, and when man gives up control it's all God's Glory...

:thumbs: Well said. And NO ONE here ever suggested that Satan could, would, or might defeat God. That was either a gross misinterpretation or an intentional strawman attack. The argument was that God's power is better reflected in defeating an actual adversary, a real enemy, rather than...

Guy, your first sentence is just plan incorrect and unorthodox even from the Calvinistic perspective. The second sentence is absolutely correct and the fact that you think I don't agree only goes to show that either (1) you genuinely don't understand what I've argued or (2) you are purposely...

Just a quick note for clarity. Through I totally agree that God sets the rules, not the other way around, we must acknowledge the rules that have now been set through revelation as being the truth about God. (i.e. He cannot lie) And we must understand that according to revelation God has...

:thumbs: It has always amazed me that some consider it more powerful and 'sovereign' for God to 'play both sides of the chess board' (so to speak), rather than to win a real victory over an actual adversary.