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Not even with his help? I'm glad we agree on this because earlier you seemed to indicate that God would be a failure if people didn't respond as He desired.

Show me where I EVER said that Hodge believed the atonement was "MEANT" for all men? I have said over and over again that Hodge was Calvinistic in that He believed the atonement was only intended for the elect, but in satisfying the legal impediments for the elect he likewise satisfied it for...

True. Even more true. Muller, another Calvinistic scholar and historian explained this quite well when he wrote: The terms ‘universal’ and ‘limited atonement’ do not represent the sixteenth- and seventeenth-century Reformed view–or, for that matter, the view of its opponents. The issue was...

:thumbs::thumbs: Good point.

Do me a favor and compare/contrast the view of Owen and Hodge regarding the Atonement. Do you not acknowledge the difference? Both are Calvinists, but certainly you realize there is no small distinction on this matter?

Aaron, Luke and all, C. Hodge is clearly saying that it is a FALSE ASSUMPTION to think that Calvinists have historically taught that the satisfaction of Christ on the cross was comparable to the payment of a debt for individuals, as if he suffered just so much for so many. Some, like Aaron...

But is there anything except their unbelief preventing them from getting in the life boat, like the size of the raft? THAT is the issue here! Is the life boat big enough for everyone invited to fit, or was it made just big enough for the ones irresistibly drawn to ride? Was the blood split...

Luke, you seem to think the only two scholarly conclusions to the problem of divine omniscience and human freedom is Determinism or Open Theism, and that is simply untrue. There are many various approaches. All of them are speculative and I personally think the appeal to mystery regarding...

As I stated before and you didn't answer, "Equating poetic physical descriptions of God with didactic clear theological teachings about what God does seems somewhat subjective, don't you think?" Who decides with biblically revealed attributes and actions of God are real and which ones are...

How long before? :laugh: See my point? You are using finite linear language to speak of infinite matters. Might we say that you are speaking anthropomorphically? Again, what does the word 'past' mean in a place without time? You are stuck in a linear mindset...we all are. Yet, you draw...

Sorry, I never saw this post. I was responding to the one after this and it rolled over to the next page before I was done. You defined omniscience but not predetermination. And you didn't show the distinction between the two from your perspective by giving an example of something God has...

BTW, I'm still waiting on those definitions? While you are at it can you point me to any scholars that teach God doesn't make choices in the manner you have done here?

Yet, his nature and attributes are being defined by the same authority as the words you have arbitrarily deemed anthropomorphic. What keeps anyone from dismissing your interpretation of God's attributes and nature as being anthropomorphic? You read a verse that says, "God is all knowing."...

Ok, now I get it. You quoted all those questions together and I didn't follow which one you were answering. Ok... When is "BEFORE he made it" to an eternally existent, infinite being? You are thinking linearly. As if God existed for all eternity PRIOR to creation and then exists for all...

Equating scripture more poetic physical descriptions of God with its clear theological teachings about what God does seems somewhat subjective, don't you think? I mean what keeps you from taking any somewhat mysterious act of God, pronouncing it to be "anthropomorphic" and contradicting it on...

I don't know how else to explain the distinction to you, Luke. Maybe if you take the time to define Omniscience and Predetermination, and then explaining their differences according to your view and giving examples of each this will be more clear. This is my third time to make this request...

Omniscience is only a problem IF you accept your premise that full foreknowledge prior to creation equals predetermination, which we do not. God foreknowing what free creatures originate themselves is different from God predetermining what creatures will do. Your whole premise is based on the...

Yet you seem to think your choice of terms is better? Interesting. Why not stick with His terms? Keep cooing Luke, otherwise you step into unknown worlds and speculations which could contradict the 'coos' of scripture. Good thing you are here to correct the terms God chose to use to reveal...

That is the basis of your entire argument against my view. You are arguing that if God KNOWS something PRIOR to creating it then he MUST have determined ("causally effected") it to be as it is in such a way that it could not be otherwise. Oh, well then you need to explain to me what you meant...