7th Day Sabbath

[Jason1]

I try to keep the Son's day holy, that day decided upon by the first Christians as our day of observance. I attend Mass when I can, but also work on it to take care of my family - Jesus understands this completely.

Now, about keeping kosher. You know that eating those things that the old law says you can eat must be adhered to, but the food itself also has to be prepared correctly. You just cannot eat any ordinary chicken or piece of beef you buy from the grocery store or from a restaurant. It has to be slaughtered and prepared in the proper manner, otherwise the food is as unclean as the one's that are prohibited. So if you eat at Micky D's, or buy your meat and poultry like I do from the local Publix, Shop Rite, or Kroger's, you are sinning and for your sake I pray that is not the case.

I used to be catholic, i know how you feel.

As for the meat, you are correct that they must be killed correctly which is to drain their blood. Every packing plant I know of does this (i'm in agriculture). They use a captive bolt pistol to scramble the brain of the cow, then they hang it upside down, then they cut its jugular and drain it of blood. This is a kosher kill according to scripture because the blood has been removed.

So feel better about the beef and chicken you eat. Just don't feel good about the pork and shrimp

 

[HankD]

You're defining kosher according to man's standards. None of that is in scripture.

What scripture says is that eating the meats in Lev 11 is an abomination to you and not to eat them so you can be set apart. Touching unclean things like a dead animal or bug doesn't make the food unclean, it makes you unclean and not fit to go to the tabernacle that day. It is time to take a bath (no tabernacle/temple today so we can only really talk about principles in this last area).. This is a good teaching tool to show us that we need to be in a state of cleanliness (body, heart, mind) when approaching the Father (thats my midrash).

You don't need a temple to cleanse your hands with water.

As for food;

Acts 10
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

HankD

 

[Adonia]

I used to be catholic, i know how you feel.

As for the meat, you are correct that they must be killed correctly which is to drain their blood. Every packing plant I know of does this (i'm in agriculture). They use a captive bolt pistol to scramble the brain of the cow, then they hang it upside down, then they cut its jugular and drain it of blood. This is a kosher kill according to scripture because the blood has been removed.

So feel better about the beef and chicken you eat. Just don't feel good about the pork and shrimp

Sorry, the way you described is not kosher. There can be no stunning, only a knife can be used to cut the jugular, and a certified Rabbi has to be involved. The meat (the poultry I know of for sure) then has to be packed in salt that removes every last trace of blood. That is why Kosher meats are so expensive, they are at least twice the price of ordinary meat/poultry products. Anything less is not kosher and therefore a violation of the law.

How do I know this? I used to haul kosher meats from the slaughter house in Iowa to Brooklyn and Miami, and then kosher salt on my return trip to the plant. But hey, if you don't believe me just go talk to some members of the Satmar or Lubavitcher Orthodox Jewish communities and they will set you straight.

 

[Jason1]

You don't need a temple to cleanse your hands with water.

As for food;

Acts 10
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

HankD

Now you're taking scripture out of context. What was that whole chapter about and what was Elohim trying to tell Peter? (He was not saying He changed His mind on Lev 11)

 

[Jason1]

Sorry, the way you described is not kosher. There can be no stunning, only a knife can be used to cut the jugular, and a certified Rabbi has to be involved. The meat (the poultry I know of for sure) then has to be packed in salt that removes every last trace of blood. That is why Kosher meats are so expensive, at least twice the price of ordinary meat/poultry products. Anything less is not kosher and therefore a violation of the law.

How do I know this? I used to haul kosher meats from the slaughter house in Iowa to Brooklyn and Miami, and then kosher salt on my return trip to the plant. But hey, if you don't believe me just go talk to some members of the Satmar or Lubavitcher Orthodox Jewish communities and they will set you straight.

Now you're jumping on the oral law train...

Killing methods, salting, etc is man-made law. Find the scriptures that point to these if not. Both you and Hank aren't making a correct distinction between the two laws.

 

[HankD]

Now you're taking scripture out of context. What was that whole chapter about and what was Elohim trying to tell Peter? (He was not saying He changed His mind on Lev 11)

It's right there in the text:

Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

HankD

 

[Jason1]

It's right there in the text:

Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

HankD

Hank, try a little harder:

Act 10:17 And while Kĕpha was doubting within himself about what the vision might mean, look, the men who had been sent from Cornelius, having asked for the house of Shimʽon, stood at the gate,
Act 10:28 And he said to them, “You know that a Yehuḏite man is not allowed to associate with, or go to one of another race. But Elohim has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

THIS WAS NOT ABOUT FOOD. This is about oral law separating the jews from gentiles and Elohim showed Peter this is wrong.

Echoed here:

Eph 2:14 For He is our peace, who has made both one, and having broken down the partition of the barrier,
Eph 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity – the Torah of the commands in dogma – so as to create in Himself one renewed man from the two, thus making peace,

(This torah of commands in dogma is oral law)

 

[HankD]

Hank, try a little harder:

Act 10:17 And while Kĕpha was doubting within himself about what the vision might mean, look, the men who had been sent from Cornelius, having asked for the house of Shimʽon, stood at the gate,
Act 10:28 And he said to them, “You know that a Yehuḏite man is not allowed to associate with, or go to one of another race. But Elohim has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

THIS WAS NOT ABOUT FOOD. This is about oral law separating the jews from gentiles and Elohim showed Peter this is wrong.

KJV Acts 10:13... Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

So Peter was to kill and eat the Gentiles!

HankD

 

[HankD]

Now you're jumping on the oral law train...

Killing methods, salting, etc is man-made law. Find the scriptures that point to these if not. Both you and Hank aren't making a correct distinction between the two laws.

IMO its a ploy, a verbal tap dance around the 613 mitzvouth, the ones you don't like.
I showed you the scripture and you rejected it.

Circumcision is the rite of entry to the Law.
Nothing else is acceptable without it (unless one is female).

HankD

 

[Adonia]

Now you're jumping on the oral law train...

Killing methods, salting, etc is man-made law. Find the scriptures that point to these if not. Both you and Hank aren't making a correct distinction between the two laws.

No, not man made but God ordained! That's your line time and time again - man made. The fact is, salt is the time proven method of preserving meats that goes all the way back to the beginning of time. NO BLOOD of any animal can be injested according to the old law, it has to be pure, and salting the meat is the way ALL of the blood is removed. Go ahead and look at the blood that is at the bottom of the package of meat you buy at the grocery store and jugular sliced or not, such meat is definitely NOT kosher. If you eat such meats you are in violation of the law plain and simple. Christians who live under the new law are not bothered by such things.

 

[Jason1]

IMO its a ploy, a verbal tap dance around the 613 mitzvouth, the ones you don't like.
I showed you the scripture and you rejected it.

Circumcision is the rite of entry to the Law.
Nothing else is acceptable without it (unless one is female).

Why are you so stubborn? You know circumcision is a rite to enter through JUDAISM. Look this stuff up if you don't believe me.

KJV Acts 10:13... Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

So Peter was to kill and eat the Gentiles!

Have you even read the chapter? You are grasping at a false doctrine so you can enjoy your pork chops without feeling bad.

 

[Jason1]

No, not man made but God ordained! That's your line time and time again - man made. The fact is, salt is the time proven method of preserving meats that goes all the way back to the beginning of time. NO BLOOD of any animal can be injested according to the old law, it has to be pure, and salting the meat is the way ALL of the blood is removed. Go ahead and look at the blood that is at the bottom of the package of meat you buy at the grocery store and jugular sliced or not, such meat is definitely NOT kosher. If you eat such meats you are in violation of the law plain and simple. Christians who live under the new law are not bothered by such things.

Show me where in scripture that you must salt meat. Yes it can pull more blood out, and yes it does preserve meat, but there is no command for this. It is in how you drain it when you kill the animal.

Do you honestly think that every sacrifice at the temple was salted first? Hardly...

 

[HankD]

Why are you so stubborn? You know circumcision is a rite to enter through JUDAISM. Look this stuff up if you don't believe me.

OH, wait a minute, wait a minute! What happened to keeping every "jot and tittle" and walking as He walked?

Jesus underwent the rite.

Don't forget all the mitvouth for women and your responsibility towards your family women during these times.

Have you even read the chapter? You are grasping at a false doctrine so you can enjoy your pork chops without feeling bad.

Of course I have.

You are correct,I don't feel bad when I eat my pork chops because I obey my Lord and don't call what He made kosher a "common" ("traif") meat.

Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Of course he meant eating with the Gentiles by cultural extension. Jewish Christians can eat these Acts 10 koshered meats (such as pork and lobster) WITH and AS Gentiles as well.

This is a reversion to the Noahide Covenant after the global flood of Noah where all animal life is clean for food except for blood.

Musings on the Noahide Laws, Part 1

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

This was/is the venue of the church until the return of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ as we bring the gospel of the forgiveness of sins and the promise of eternal life through faith in the death, burial and resurrection of God the Son Jesus Christ.

If anyone wishes to refrain from any specific food(s) this is scriptural as well.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.

HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

Lol, your blindness would be a riot if it weren't so sad. How dare I obey the Creator of the universe. Shame on me. Lol

I follow the Gospel of Jesus and paul, who do you follow then?

 

[Yeshua1]

Oh Rev, the theology on this forum does that in spades. Here is some preceding verses for you that you must have missed:

Rom 2:5 But according to your hardness and your unrepentant heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of Elohim,
Rom 2:6 who “shall render to each one according to his works”:
Rom 2:7 everlasting life to those who by persistence in good work seek for esteem, and respect, and incorruptibility;
Rom 2:8 but wrath and displeasure to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness;

paul stated that we are saved by grace alone thru faith alone?

 

[Jason1]

OH, wait a minute, wait a minute! What happened to keeping every "jot and tittle" and walking as He walked?

Jesus underwent the rite.

Don't forget all the mitvouth for women and your responsibility towards your family women during these times.

Of coarse circumcision is still relevant, but you said it was for ENTRY. Check out acts 15 on this topic.

Of course I have.

You are correct,I don't feel bad when I eat my pork chops because I obey my Lord and don't call what He made kosher a "common" ("traif") meat.

Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Of course he meant eating with the Gentiles by cultural extension. Jewish Christians can eat these Acts 10 koshered meats (such as pork and lobster) WITH and AS Gentiles as well.

This is a reversion to the Noahide Covenant after the global flood of Noah where all animal life is clean for food except for blood.

Musings on the Noahide Laws, Part 1

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

This was/is the venue of the church until the return of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ as we bring the gospel of the forgiveness of sins and the promise of eternal life through faith in the death, burial and resurrection of God the Son Jesus Christ.

If anyone wishes to refrain from any specific food(s) this is scriptural as well.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.

HankD

This theology is wrong headed. Why would eating unclean meats back then be bad, but ok now? Ever wonder that? Noah knew the unclean from the clean:

Gen_7:2 “Of all the clean beasts take with you seven pairs, a male and his female; and of the beasts that are unclean two, a male and his female;

If he ate a pig on the ark, guess what? No more pigs because there were only 2.

 

[Yeshua1]

Again, i'm still waiting on you to tell me what the terms of the new one are.

saved by grace alone, faith alone, and we now live in the empowering of the Holy Spirit!

 

[Jason1]

I follow the Gospel of Jesus and paul, who do you follow then?

Same one. Their good news was the restoration of the kingdom, the beginning of the regathering of the exiles (spiritually first), and the freedom found in only written law with no man made additions. Nothing was ever stated as abolishing that which exiled them in the first place, that is just crazy talk.

 

[MennoSota]

You're defining kosher according to man's standards. None of that is in scripture.

What scripture says is that eating the meats in Lev 11 is an abomination to you and not to eat them so you can be set apart. Touching unclean things like a dead animal or bug doesn't make the food unclean, it makes you unclean and not fit to go to the tabernacle that day. It is time to take a bath (no tabernacle/temple today so we can only really talk about principles in this last area).. This is a good teaching tool to show us that we need to be in a state of cleanliness (body, heart, mind) when approaching the Father (thats my midrash).

Jason, just admit you are making it up on the fly. Your standard cop out is "man's standards" not "God's standards", but you...a mere man...are the one determining which standard it is. That's hypocritical on your part.

 

[HankD]

Of coarse circumcision is still relevant, but you said it was for ENTRY. Check out acts 15 on this topic.

OK, if we accept Acts 15 then circumcision AND the entirety of the Law of Moses has been set aside apart from the consumption of blood..

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
...
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
...
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

This theology is wrong headed. Why would eating unclean meats back then be bad, but ok now? Ever wonder that? Noah knew the unclean from the clean:

For one thing before the flood only vegetation was eaten:

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

For another God makes the rules, He changes the rules when he sees fit.

If he ate a pig on the ark, guess what? No more pigs because there were only 2.

They didn't eat animal flesh at all on the ark, they were still vegetarians until they came out of the ark, then they were allowed to eat "everything that moves"

HankD