A Fresh Blossom on the TULIP

[Silverhair]

How would you define putting them on a pedestal?

Just what you said "I'm a great admirer of John Calvin who, like Martin Luther" If you can not or refuse to see the flaws in these men then you are putting them on a pedestal. The only one that is High and Lifted up is Christ Jesus. All men have their warts and flaws, while some have done or will do great things for the kingdom I do not lift them up. That is just how I see it.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Just what you said "I'm a great admirer of John Calvin who, like Martin Luther" If you can not or refuse to see the flaws in these men then you are putting them on a pedestal. The only one that is High and Lifted up is Christ Jesus. All men have their warts and flaws, while some have done or will do great things for the kingdom I do not lift them up. That is just how I see it.

I believe that Calvin was wrong for not protesting the execution of Servetus. While he requested a lesser punishment than burning at the stake, he should have opposed his execution altogether.

 

[Marooncat79]

Totally in Adam; 1 Corinthians 15:22
Unlimited Reconciliation; 1 Timothy 2:6
Limited Redemption; John 3:16
In Christ;
Protected Faith;

These are the on topic issues. See if anyone cites verses that support these teachings.

Actually, the “in Christ” motif is a great Bible Study.

I would encourage all who have not studied it to get a concordance and go at it

don’t forget paper and pen for notes

 

[Silverhair]

I believe that Calvin was wrong for not protesting the execution of Servetus. While he requested a lesser punishment than burning at the stake, he should have opposed his execution altogether.

As I said just a flawed man. I do disagree with what have become the teachings of Calvinism but that is not because of any feelings toward Calvin. I just view his teachings to be wrong.

 

[AustinC]

Austin, I was going to say what you said was just dumb but really you are just deluded. You have really got to get some rudimentary reading skills. You are so locked in to the false teaching of Calvinism that you can not see the truth.

{Austin what you have shown is that by your own logic and quote it is Jesus that says works will save you.“One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have {work}and distribute to the poor, {work} and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

Now we know that works will not save you so that means that your understanding of this text is questionable at best. What Christ Jesus is saying is that material possessions and obeying rules will not save you. It is only through personal trust/ faith in Christ Jesus that a person can be saved. Only God can save and He saves because you trust in His son Christ Jesus. Just so we are clear here. God saves you after you trust in His son not before you trust in His son.}

Since you must not have read the whole post I put it here between the { } just above. Note the highlighted text in the second paragraph.

Your views are shallow and quite frankly you are rude when you miss quote or twist what people say. But why should anyone be surprised.

Silverhair, your initial thought is flawed, therefore you attempt to ride the fence while hoping that no one sees your contradiction. You want to claim works while saying it's not works at the same time.
Your man-centered philosophy is obvious to any observant person.

 

[percho]

Translation shopping is not a sound bible study practice. Yes, YLT frequently translates "dikaioō" (G1344) as declared righteous but that is a mis-translation. Compare with the NASB. Scripture says believers are "made" righteous, thus to translate as declared results in conflict, but translating as justified results in harmony.

Consider this link:
The Rebel God: Justification means "made righteous"

My point is, whether you say declared or made, righteous of justified it is
by blood which I understand to be the obedience unto death even the death of the cross which would equal to the obedience of Rom 19 making or declaring righteous/justified. The same with, "the faith of Jesus Christ," relative to righteous/justified. Faith there is relative to the obedience of Christ not something we are exercising.

IMHO

That makes our righteousness and or our justification, being all of God the Father and the Son then extended to the elect through sanctification of the Spirit.

I believe salvation is all of God.

 

[Silverhair]

Silverhair, your initial thought is flawed, therefore you attempt to ride the fence while hoping that no one sees your contradiction. You want to claim works while saying it's not works at the same time.
Your man-centered philosophy is obvious to any observant person.

Austin you can not possibly be as thick as you come across. If you can not see the truth in what I have said then you are as lost as a ball in tall grass.

The only thing you see is Calvin he has become the god you worship, and that is really sad. Your lost child your lost.

 

[AustinC]

Austin you can not possibly be as thick as you come across. If you can not see the truth in what I have said then you are as lost as a ball in tall grass.

The only thing you see is Calvin he has become the god you worship, and that is really sad. Your lost child your lost.

Silverhair, the obstacles you place on God by demanding human will be the supreme authority in salvation is obvious to those who read your posts.

 

[thomas15]

Austin you can not possibly be as thick as you come across. If you can not see the truth in what I have said then you are as lost as a ball in tall grass.

The only thing you see is Calvin he has become the god you worship, and that is really sad. Your lost child your lost.

Agree.

I'm fond of saying that every man capable of thought has their religion. Even those who claim to be free of religion, but be it money, politics or some social cause, there is a god somewhere that is worshipped.

I'm also fond of saying one can read and even memorize Scripture but that isn't the same thing as believing it and trusting it. Some believe and trust specific passages of Scripture such as John 3:16 but much of the remaining 1100 pages are, in the opinion of some, subject to an outside theological consideration. So I agree, there is a god known as reformed theology.

 

[Van]

My point is, whether you say declared or made, righteous of justified it is
by blood which I understand to be the obedience unto death even the death of the cross which would equal to the obedience of Rom 19 making or declaring righteous/justified. The same with, "the faith of Jesus Christ," relative to righteous/justified. Faith there is relative to the obedience of Christ not something we are exercising.

IMHO

That makes our righteousness and or our justification, being all of God the Father and the Son then extended to the elect through sanctification of the Spirit.

I believe salvation is all of God.

Please, if you do not grasp there is a difference from being declared righteous, and being "made" righteous in Christ, there is nothing more I can say.

No one said or suggested that we make or contribute to our righteousness, we are made righteous by God.

Do you understand that the phrase "washing of regeneration" refers to our being born anew spiritually in Christ, no longer a made sinner, but instead made righteous, holy and blameless? This is not rocket science.

 

[Van]

Actually, the “in Christ” motif is a great Bible Study.

I would encourage all who have not studied it to get a concordance and go at it

don’t forget paper and pen for notes

Each of these refers to our positional sanctification where we have been placed spiritually within Christ and sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit, thus we are in Christ and Christ is in us.

Romans 3:24
being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

Rom 6:11
Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 8:1
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Rom 8:39
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 12:5 so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

Consider all the things that occur when God places us into Christ: justified, redeemed, made alive, have eternal life, no condemnation, set free from sin and death, inseparable from the love of God, and members of the body of Christ!

 

[Marooncat79]

So what?

it is a good Bible Study for anyone who has not done so

 

[Marooncat79]

Seriously

 

[Marooncat79]

Ok Van

let me help you

In Christ

we have been justified

we have been redeemed

we were once dead, but now alive

we are now alive to God

we have now been freed from the law of sin and death

we are now loved of God

made one with other believers

I am sure that you have some kind of problem with my post, so please let us know what is wrong here?

 

[Van]

Ok Van

I am sure that you have some kind of problem with my post, so please let us know what is wrong here?

Once again a Calvinist posts an off topic question addressed to me to change the subject.

Why did God choose to put those in Christ into Christ? Rich in faith, love of God, faith in the truth? No siree bob, Calvinists claim all those verses do not mean what they say, our individual characteristics play no part in gaining access to the kingdom.

Just read James 2:5, or 2 Thessalonians 2:13, or consider why it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom...

We need a fresh blossom on the TULIP, one actually based on scripture...

 

[Van]

Totally in Adam; 1 Corinthians 15:22
Unlimited Reconciliation; 1 Timothy 2:6
Limited Redemption; John 3:16
In Christ; 1 Corinthians 1:30
Protected Faith;

These are the on topic issues. See if anyone cites verses that support these teachings

 

[Silverhair]

Silverhair, the obstacles you place on God by demanding human will be the supreme authority in salvation is obvious to those who read your posts.

Austin I do not demand it God has said we have to make choices and we are held responsible for those choices. God is gracious and wants all to be saved 1Ti_2:3-4 but He does not drag us in to heaven as you would have it {determinism}. So what option is lift, it's called choice Joh 3:16-18. But you do not like that so you through out your false accusations about the way of salvation. Problem, the bible says your wrong but you keep following calvin if it makes you feel better. As they say you have the right to be wrong.

 

[AustinC]

Agree.

I'm fond of saying that every man capable of thought has their religion. Even those who claim to be free of religion, but be it money, politics or some social cause, there is a god somewhere that is worshipped.

I'm also fond of saying one can read and even memorize Scripture but that isn't the same thing as believing it and trusting it. Some believe and trust specific passages of Scripture such as John 3:16 but much of the remaining 1100 pages are, in the opinion of some, subject to an outside theological consideration. So I agree, there is a god known as reformed theology.

There is an observation in scripture that God is a Sovereign God who rules entirely over the affairs of men. There is no observation of co-rulership as free will philosophers promote.

 

[Marooncat79]

There is an observation in scripture that God is a Sovereign God who rules entirely over the affairs of men. There is no observation of co-rulership as free will philosophers promote.

Austin

are you really saying that salvation is of the Lord?

 

[AustinC]

Austin

are you really saying that salvation is of the Lord?

Shockingly...yes. 100% of God and 0% of man.