A Person, with a Weapon, Breaks into Your Home....

[Arbo]

Men who abdicate their positions as protectors of their families value the lives of their attackers more than their wives' and childrens'.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Men who abdicate their positions as protectors of their families value the lives of their attackers more than their wives' and childrens'.

Oh brother..

:tonofbricks:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Where does the Bible say to protect anyone?

In the KJV, the words "protect", "protects" & "protected" are not to be found.

The word "protection" is found once, but it is not speaking of a human protecting another human.

So where do we get the idea that the Bible teaches us to protect our families?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Men who abdicate their positions as protectors of their families value the lives of their attackers more than their wives' and childrens'.

Men who "strike back" when attacked value their thoughts and ideas better than those of Jesus.

Matthew 5:39 (KJV) But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

 

[Alcott]

I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her. To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, ‘I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning' [Revelation 18:4-7].

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her. To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, ‘I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning' [Revelation 18:4-7].

You've provided events that will take place during the great tribulation. How about providing something that tells us that we are to deal out vengeance in the time we are in now?

 

[padredurand]

"If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account.
Exodus 22:2 NAS77

 

[Steadfast Fred]

"If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account.
Exodus 22:2 NAS77

Is that instruction to do so? Or just if it so happens?

Looks just the opposite of Jesus' instruction to "resist not evil" and "offer the other cheek"

 

[padredurand]

Is that instruction to do so? Or just if it so happens?

"If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account.
Exodus 22:2 NAS77

I think it is self-explanitory. Obviously the thief gets caught breaking in. Equally obvious is the thief getting struck. The third thing that should be obvious is that there is an expectation that a man will defend his own property. The real question is what happens if the thief that you struck dies. The answer is no bloodguiltness.

Looks just the opposite of Jesus' instruction to "resist not evil" and "offer the other cheek"

Maybe you should take a second look.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.
Matthew 5:17 NAS77



"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.
Matthew 5:17 NAS77

 

[Sapper Woody]

Men who "strike back" when attacked value their thoughts and ideas better than those of Jesus.

Matthew 5:39 (KJV) But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

So, we shouldn't resist evil. We're going to take that verse literally then, and apply it across the board:

So now, we shouldn't worry about fighting against abortion. We shouldn't try to stop same sex marriage.

Again, even if you want to take that verse and apply it to self defense, it doesn't say "If a man attacks your wife, stand there like a coward and let it happen."

I also find it interesting that my post refuting that link earlier was totally ignored.

 

[saturneptune]

Now that is the mind of Christ...

No it is not, not even close.

 

[saturneptune]

Since there is no draft, I have no need to worry about being deployed to any war.

And I am sure that if I were called, the Armed Forces would quickly release me from any active duty given my stance.

That would be your choice so long as there is not a draft. Some defend freedom and liberty, some do not.

 

[saturneptune]

Men who abdicate their positions as protectors of their families value the lives of their attackers more than their wives' and childrens'.

You are 100% correct. People who are more worried about "I'm OK, you're OK" than their families safety have a real problem common sense wise. To relate such a warped view to the Gospel, Scripture, or Chirst is an outrage and beyond the bounds of reason. This shows a total misunderstanding of God's Holy Word. People who think like this should hang their heads in shame for even thinking such a thought.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

"If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account.
Exodus 22:2 NAS77

I think it is self-explanitory. Obviously the thief gets caught breaking in. Equally obvious is the thief getting struck. The third thing that should be obvious is that there is an expectation that a man will defend his own property. The real question is what happens if the thief that you struck dies. The answer is no bloodguiltness.




Maybe you should take a second look.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.
Matthew 5:17 NAS77



"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.
Matthew 5:17 NAS77

Strong's Greek Dictionary
4137. pleroo
Search for G4137 in KJVSL
plhrow pleroo play-ro'-o
from 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

See Greek 4134

pleroo has a meaning of complete or end. I believe that is what Jesus was saying.

Why do I believe this? Because Paul taught that we are not under the law but under grace. He taught that those who put themselves under the law had better keep the whole law or they are under a curse.

Tell you what, padre... if you want to be under a curse, follow the law. I choose not to.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

So, we shouldn't resist evil. We're going to take that verse literally then, and apply it across the board:

So now, we shouldn't worry about fighting against abortion. We shouldn't try to stop same sex marriage.

Again, even if you want to take that verse and apply it to self defense, it doesn't say "If a man attacks your wife, stand there like a coward and let it happen."

I also find it interesting that my post refuting that link earlier was totally ignored.

Your post did not refute my stance. You used a passage speaking of events in the great tribulation. Those events are not for God's Church. The Church has already been taken away prior to the events of Revelation 18.

Also, in Revelation, God is telling the people to come out of the house of the harlot. She isn't in their house, they are in hers.

Your prooftext is not proof at all.

 

[IANMO(IAMNTMYOWN)]

So, we shouldn't resist evil. We're going to take that verse literally then, and apply it across the board:

So now, we shouldn't worry about fighting against abortion. We shouldn't try to stop same sex marriage.

Good point:thumbsup:

 

[righteousdude2]

It is True: The Bible is Conflicted on Whether to Protect Oneself...

1 Samuel 25:13 ESV / 5 helpful votes

And David said to his men, “Every man strap on his sword!” And every man of them strapped on his sword. David also strapped on his sword. And about four hundred men went up after David, while two hundred remained with the baggage.

Numbers 31:3 ESV / 5 helpful votes

So Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian to execute the Lord's vengeance on Midian.

Luke 22:35-38 - New King James Version (NKJV)

And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?” So they said, “Nothing.” Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.” So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It (one)is enough.”

Taken from:http://www.thebereancall.org/content/question-does-bible-allow-defending-oneself-or-ones-family

Some Christians believe that it shows a lack of faith to arm oneself even in the face of imminent danger. To be armed is to not trust God as one's protector, or so I'm told. I certainly trust God as my protector. I also trust God as my provider, yet I work. I trust God as my healer, yet I go to the doctor. The same holds true for protection. I look to the Lord ultimately to protect me and my family, yet there may be a time when arming myself for their protection is the prudent thing to do. It may be a matter of simply deterring wickedness, or more actively preventing the rape or murder of one's loved ones.

From: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/714725/posts

God is not a pacifist. Jesus is not a pacifist. As Jesus said in the very next verse, verse 53, "Or do you not think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?" Jesus could have used force. The use of force; the use of swords were simply improper for the situation in which Christ was involved. He was suppose to die. He and the Father are not pacifists. He did not use
force because He had to drink the cup of the Father.

We are not to harm others out of an act of vengenace (because vengence of the Lord). However, if one believes killing is one and the same as murder, then no one would be allowed to us deadly force, even in defense to save lives. The Bible prohibits murder, but not in using killing against a hostile enemy; neither is the ownership and use of weapons are not prohibited. There were times when it became necessary for Israel to fight or go into captivity. The other exception is when God decided to punish Israel for their disobedience and told them to go into captivity so they would live.

This above paragraph was taken from the following, and I suggest you read it through [thoroughly] before you make any attempt to tear it apart and defend pacifism:http://www.letusreason.org/doct40.htm

IMHO - to arm and protect ourself both spiritually (Ephesians 6:10-18) and physically, Luke 22:37. Shalom:thumbs:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

You've shown Scripture concerning war, now show us New Testament passage that tells us that we can kill our enemy.

Jesus preached just the opposite than what you and others are advocating.

 

[Alive in Christ]

No it is not, not even close.

Yes, that is indeed the mind of Christ.

 

[righteousdude2]

Opinions are like....

You've shown Scripture concerning war, now show us New Testament passage that tells us that we can kill our enemy.

Jesus preached just the opposite than what you and others are advocating.

....bellybuttons. Everyone has one. Some are innies, and some are outies, but they are still nothing more, or nothing less, than a navel. We will have to wait until we get to heaven to see who is right, Fred! Right?

In the meantime, if some tries to cause harm to you or the Mrs., don't be hypocritical and call the police to protect you.

Take it like you preach it. OK?