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Featured A Tale of Two Calvinisms

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JonC, Dec 6, 2020.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    If forgiveness was already provided then why would you be facing Hell in the first place?
     
    #141 JonC, Dec 11, 2020
  2. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Don’t worry about that JC


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    #142 Sai, Dec 11, 2020
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  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I don't worry about it. I'm just wondering how @Yeshua1 expounds on these things.
     
    #143 JonC, Dec 11, 2020
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Have to receive the new birth in order to avoid going to Hell, as not born right with God!
     
    #144 Yeshua1, Dec 11, 2020
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Were you born reconciled back to God already?
     
    #145 Yeshua1, Dec 11, 2020
  6. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Me too.
     
    #146 Sai, Dec 11, 2020
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We are saved by the Grace of God, but still has to be experience by us in real time!
     
    #147 Yeshua1, Dec 11, 2020
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think we're just going to get "sound bites" without any substance.
     
    #148 JonC, Dec 11, 2020
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I see. So you are not technically a Calvinist (you do not believe that Christ accomplished salvation at the Cross but rather that Christ died to make salvation possible...i.e., potential atonement).
     
    #149 JonC, Dec 11, 2020
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Me? No. But I never claimed that my sins were forgiven when Jesus died.
     
    #150 JonC, Dec 11, 2020
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Nope again, God made a definite salvation provided that I will get period, but still have to receive Jesus as Lord to get saved, not born saved!
     
    #151 Yeshua1, Dec 11, 2020
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Did the death of Jesus on that Cross atone for all of your sins?
     
    #152 Yeshua1, Dec 11, 2020
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    If Jesus' death paid the price for your sins (personally) and your salvation was accomplished then why do you have to receive Jesus TO GET saved? Saved FROM WHAT? Not your sins, you already said that they were settled a couple of thousand years ago. Not the wrath to come because that is related to sin.
     
    #153 JonC, Dec 11, 2020
  14. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Without having followed any of the thread I was just trolling your post. Yet you are right because in my observation the work of God in the saving of men has included antinomies that are not fully explainable in this life. In the next, yes, we will have complete creaturely knowledge. But for now, Barry wood stubble selah


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    #154 Sai, Dec 11, 2020
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Jesus' death atoned for the Sin of man (the sins of human being, i.e., mankind). Man is reconciled, therefore we plead that men will be reconciled.

    So to sum things up -

    You believe that Jesus paid the debt for your sins...but not really because you are still guilty at birth.
    You believe that those who are elect were so from the foundation of the earth...but not really because they are born destined for Hell.
    You believe that our sins were "atoned for" at the Cross.....but not really because we are born still in our sins.
    You believe that our salvation was accomplished at the Cross.....but not really because we still have to receive this salvation.

    I talk my previous comment back. You definitely sound like a Calvinist.
     
    #155 JonC, Dec 11, 2020
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    other then Hyper Calvinist, are there any who see us as being right relationship with God before getting saved by new birth?
     
    #156 Yeshua1, Dec 11, 2020
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ad hominem: (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining. "vicious ad hominem attacks"
     
    #157 kyredneck, Dec 11, 2020
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I don't know. You say we are sinless (our sins forgiven before we were born). So why do we even need to be reborn?
     
    #158 JonC, Dec 11, 2020
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God set up a big Trust fund for His own to receive the very moment are born again!
     
    #159 Yeshua1, Dec 11, 2020
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    So atonement was not actual but potential until one believes?
     
    #160 JonC, Dec 11, 2020
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