All are saved by grace.

[GoodTidings]

Your conviction of sin was because of the new birth. The joy of the Holy Spirit becomes more full the more you repent.

That is not what the Bible says. We are convicted by the Holy Spirit to repent of our sin and obey the Gospel. That is how it works. Repentance precedes salvation in the Bible. You are not saved and then told repent. Nowhere is your errant teaching found in the Bible.

Your views do not reflect the Bible and thus do not reflect authentic, biblical Christianity. You need to repent of false teaching and line your theology up with the Bible.

 

[1689Dave]

Wrong. God does not save us before we believe, before we put faith in Jesus. I think it is worth noting that no one is buying the snake oil you're selling.

Do apples grow without a tree? Neither does faith grow without the Holy Spirit which faith is a fruit of.

 

[1689Dave]

That is not what the Bible says. We are convicted by the Holy Spirit to repent of our sin and obey the Gospel. That is how it works. Repentance precedes salvation in the Bible. You are not saved and then told repent. Nowhere is your errant teaching found in the Bible.

Your views do not reflect the Bible and thus do not reflect authentic, biblical Christianity. You need to repent of false teaching and line your theology up with the Bible.

But you must believe or you would not repent.

 

[1689Dave]

Not talking about translations. Talking about Greek. The Greek does not say that "faith" is a fruit of the spirit. It says that faithfulness is a fruit of the Spirit.

You need to find the honesty and the courage to face up to that fact. The Bible makes it clear that we are saved by faith, meaning that the faith a sinner exercises in accepting the Gospel is sufficient for salvation.

You have an errant theology that is not based on the Bible.

The pros use pistis as faith/faithfulness interchangeably. Pistis is a fruit of the Holy Spirit that preexists or it would not exist.

 

[GoodTidings]

Do apples grow without a tree? Neither does faith grow without the Holy Spirit which faith is a fruit of.

Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. You just spout off fleshly false doctrine because you clearly do not read or understand the Bible and the basic theological concepts it contains.

The Bible does not say you have to be saved to put faith in Jesus. The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace through faith. Saving faith does not come after salvation; that is not what the Bible teaches. The faith a person exercises when they believe the Gospel is accepted by God, even if your bargain-basement theology doesn't make room for it.

 

[GoodTidings]

But you must believe or you would not repent.

Yes, but that doesn't mean you are saved BEFORE you believed.

Point to ONE verse that says that we are saved before we believe.

 

[GoodTidings]

The pros use pistis as faith/faithfulness interchangeably. Pistis is a fruit of the Holy Spirit that preexists or it would not exist.

That is false. They are not used interchangeably. Pistis isn't "faith." It is "faithfulness" or "loyalty." That is not the saving faith (pistos) of Eph. 2:8,9. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

You are trying to force something onto the Bible that the Bible doesn't say.

 

[1689Dave]

That is false. They are not used interchangeably. Pistis isn't "faith." It is "faithfulness" or "loyalty." That is not the saving faith (pistos) of Eph. 2:8,9. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

You are trying to force something onto the Bible that the Bible doesn't say.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22) KJV

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,” (Galatians 5:22) NASB

 

[1689Dave]

Yes, but that doesn't mean you are saved BEFORE you believed.

Point to ONE verse that says that we are saved before we believe.

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life = salvation

 

[1689Dave]

Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. You just spout off fleshly false doctrine because you clearly do not read or understand the Bible and the basic theological concepts it contains.

The Bible does not say you have to be saved to put faith in Jesus. The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace through faith. Saving faith does not come after salvation; that is not what the Bible teaches. The faith a person exercises when they believe the Gospel is accepted by God, even if your bargain-basement theology doesn't make room for it.

Whoever believes has eternal life = salvation

 

[Revmitchell]

Do apples grow without a tree? Neither does faith grow without the Holy Spirit which faith is a fruit of.

So faithfulness is a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22). Saving faith is a result of the gospel (Romans 10:17). Those are not the same thing.

 

[1689Dave]

So faithfulness is a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22). Saving faith is a result of the gospel (Romans 10:17). Those are not the same thing.

But you must already have the Holy Spirit where faith/faithfulness grows as its fruit. The flesh cannot discern spiritual truth.

 

[canadyjd]

Your conviction of sin was because of the new birth. The joy of the Holy Spirit becomes more full the more you repent.

My conviction of sin was because of Holy Spirit. I think I understand what you are saying, and can hold that regeneration is necessary for conviction, repentance and ultimately acceptance of Jesus as Savior.

Regeneration by Holy Spirit will always lead to repentance and salvation, but it is not same as belief or faith which must occur to appropriate salvation.

BTW, this is a good conversation to have to help us understand how we come into our relationship with God.

Thanks for the conversation

Peace to you

 

[1689Dave]

My conviction of sin was because of Holy Spirit. I think I understand what you are saying, and can hold that regeneration is necessary for conviction, repentance and ultimately acceptance of Jesus as Savior.

Regeneration by Holy Spirit will always lead to repentance and salvation, but it is not same as belief or faith which must occur to appropriate salvation.

BTW, this is a good conversation to have to help us understand how we come into our relationship with God.

Thanks for the conversation

Peace to you

The New Birth is salvation. The word directs our course therein.

 

[GoodTidings]

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22) KJV

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,” (Galatians 5:22) NASB

Yes, but the KJV has it wrong.

 

[GoodTidings]

Whoever believes has eternal life = salvation

You may believe the Gospel, but that does not mean you accept it. I know lots of sinners that I used to work with who acknowledge the Gospel, who accept that it's claims are true, but reject Jesus. They know they are going to Hell, but they are too in love with their sin to put their faith in Jesus.

You can believe in Jesus, but not believe Jesus. You can believe the Gospel is true, but reject it on the grounds that you don't want it for yourself. Simply "believing" doesn't mean you're saved. There as to be an active, dynamic faith in Jesus. Believing in the sense of mentally assenting to the propositional truths of the Gospel is simply not enough.

 

[GoodTidings]

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life = salvation

But Jesus didn't say you believe because you have eternal life, which is what you're saying. You've been saying that the reason a person believes is that God saved them their believing, repentance, etc. is the result of God saving them before they accepted the Gospel.

You are simply promoting an ungodly, unchristian false teaching that does not line up with the Bible.

 

[1689Dave]

But Jesus didn't say you believe because you have eternal life, which is what you're saying. You've been saying that the reason a person believes is that God saved them their believing, repentance, etc. is the result of God saving them before they accepted the Gospel.

You are simply promoting an ungodly, unchristian false teaching that does not line up with the Bible.

If you experience eternal life in the new birth you cannot help but believe. It happens without trying.

 

[1689Dave]

You may believe the Gospel, but that does not mean you accept it. I know lots of sinners that I used to work with who acknowledge the Gospel, who accept that it's claims are true, but reject Jesus. They know they are going to Hell, but they are too in love with their sin to put their faith in Jesus.

You can believe in Jesus, but not believe Jesus. You can believe the Gospel is true, but reject it on the grounds that you don't want it for yourself. Simply "believing" doesn't mean you're saved. There as to be an active, dynamic faith in Jesus. Believing in the sense of mentally assenting to the propositional truths of the Gospel is simply not enough.

It's the nature of the new birth to want Christ. If you turn your nose up at him, you are not born again.

 

[1689Dave]

Yes, but the KJV has it wrong.

Many good translations say the same.