Anything good from alcohol?

Brother Bob,

Many would say that John the Baptist is not a good excuse for the case of abstinence, as he was a Nazarite from birth.

It is interesting that when going over the Nazarite vows, one can see that John may not have been a Nazarite as supposed.

The Nazarite vows were more than abstaining from wine and strong drink, they also could not cut their hair (we find no command that John was forbidden to cut his hair), they were forbidden to eat any thing at all from the vine (John was not given such command, although we know his diet was locust's and wild honey), they were forbidden to be near a dead body (I can not find that command given for John).

Zaccharias was not given instructions as to John following the Nazarite vows completely, so I do not believe verse 15 is referring to a Nazarite vow.

 

Actually, you have no idea what instructions Zaccharias was given. All you know is what is in the Bible. That does not mean those are the total instructions given, unless of course you have a time machine and were there.

 

The instructions given to Zaccharias were written there in that first chapter of Luke.

IF it were a Nazarite vow, surely the Lord would have told him that John would be a Nazarite as he told Manoah's wife in Judges 13. 'He shall be a Nazarite'

The truth is, that is the only instance of God telling a mother that her son was to be a Nazarite.

One could take the Nazarite vow described in Numbers 6 on ones, own, but there is only one instance of one being a Nazarite from birth.

 

There you go trying to make the non-fermented wine fermented. Get out of the 21st century mindset when reading the Word of God.

 

Many times that is exactly what wine lead too. Shoot even the commercials tell us that.

 

Sorry Webdog; I don't even see the hand full but it did get taken over which I knew it would.

I am out of this argument.

 

Do you know the function of wine on lees? It is for a second round of fermentation after the first round with yeast.

Wikipedia : lees

 

and from a closed thread:

Fermentation does not make something completely different.

Translators regularly encounter single words that mean two different things in other languages.
Please consider the very different meanings of "know" in the Bible.
Or the meanings of the English word "cleave." A word like this is called a contronym.

Also, from the Jewish Theological Seminary website:
Biblical Hebrew contains a small number of words that bear antithetical meanings. These words are more than homonyms with dissimilar meanings like bear (to carry) and bear (the animal.) Their meanings are diametrically opposed to each other. Moreover, in English, homonyms usually derive fortuitously from different origins, whereas in biblical Hebrew the polarity of meanings seems to inhere by design in one and the same word.

 

John Kersey’s Dictionarium Anglo-Britannicum, or A General English Dictionary, published in London in 1708, says: "Wine, a liquor made of the juice of grapes or other fruits. Liquor or Liquour, anything that is liquid; Drink, Juice, etc. Must, sweet wine, newly pressed from the grape."

Benjamin Marin’s Lingua Britannica Reformata or A New English Dictionary, published in 1748, defines "wine" as follows: "1. the juice of the grape. 2. a liquor extracted from other fruits besides the grape.

 

Seems to me the definition changed somewhat from one century to another.

 

So, do you have an agenda? You just post the definitions that say it is alcohol. And don't have access to the other definitions? Amazing.

 

Absolutely.

Most "pagans" know intuitively that the prohibitionist position is laughable and laugh at such persons as rediculous.

And most pagans associate such silliness with Christianity though they know intuitively that is problematic

So yes, having a few beers with some "pagans" has proven very productive at times. It busts up all their stereotypes of Christians of the sorts with beams in their eyes - Christians of the sort who will rant and rant and rant against having a few beers or some wine, which is Biblically permissiable, which is something most pagans know well in their God-given conscience.

"Wow, I thought all Christians were like those small-worlded, mean-as-the-devil, Baptists I grew up around."

"No, not at all, but I sure know what you mean!" :laugh:

So go ahead. Feel free to call me a friend of sinners and a drunkard. I will consider it a true honor.

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We have the full definition in God's Holy Word. He plainly shows wine is both fermented and unfermented. The dictionaries both affirm this, historians affirm this and yet you and others want to deny it.