Anything good from alcohol?

[annsni]

So, do you have an agenda? You just post the definitions that say it is alcohol. And don't have access to the other definitions? Amazing.

Nope - I have a hard copy of the dictionary right here but copied it from the website - here's the link if you'd like to check it out yourself:

http://www.cbtministries.org/resources/webster1828.htm

 

[Diggin in da Word]

So yes, having a few beers with some "pagans" has proven very productive at times. It busts up all their stereotypes of Christians with beams in their eyes - Christians of the sort who will rant and rant and rant against having a few beers or some wine, which is Biblically permissiable, which most pagans know in their God-given conscience.

Boy, are you deceived.

 

[Brother Bob]

A Christian Responsibility. Christian churches bear considerable responsibility for the inestimable human and economic costs of alcohol, because through their beliefs, teachings and preaching they are able to influence the moral values and practices of society, possibly more than does any other institution. For example, in the early part of this century evangelical churches played a major role in influencing the passing of the Eighteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States on January 16, 1919, outlawing the "manufacture, sale or transportation" of alcoholic beverages.
Since the repeal of Prohibition in 1933, however, most churches have abandoned their stand for total abstinence, encouragin " moderation" instead. Unfortunately, moderation has led over 18 million Americans to become immoderate drinkers,5 because alcohol is a habit-forming narcotic which weakens one’s capacity for self-control.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Nope - I have a hard copy of the dictionary right here but copied it from the website - here's the link if you'd like to check it out yourself:

http://www.cbtministries.org/resources/webster1828.htm

Apparently the website is trying to hide something then if your hardcopy has something that they don't.

Webster did not put out two different dictionaries contradicting each other in the same year! CBT must have purposely left the rest of the definitions off.

 

[annsni]

We have the full definition in God's Holy Word. He plainly shows wine is both fermented and unfermented. The dictionaries both affirm this, historians affirm this and yet you and others want to deny it.

Yes - we DO have the full definition. I agree with that - what we disagree with is what that definition is.

The dictionaries both affirm what - that wine is a beverage from grapes? Webster affirms that it's alcoholic. The other dictionary has other definitions that we cannot see - I tried a search on it and couldn't find it to look. Historians -what do they have to do with defining the Word of God?

 

[annsni]

A Christian Responsibility. Christian churches bear considerable responsibility for the inestimable human and economic costs of alcohol, because through their beliefs, teachings and preaching they are able to influence the moral values and practices of society, possibly more than does any other institution. For example, in the early part of this century evangelical churches played a major role in influencing the passing of the Eighteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States on January 16, 1919, outlawing the "manufacture, sale or transportation" of alcoholic beverages.
Since the repeal of Prohibition in 1933, however, most churches have abandoned their stand for total abstinence, encouragin " moderation" instead. Unfortunately, moderation has led over 18 million Americans to become immoderate drinkers,5 because alcohol is a habit-forming narcotic which weakens one’s capacity for self-control.

Trust me, I don't think the alcoholics care one iota what the church has to say about alcohol - positive OR negative! Ask a few and I'll bet you that they'll say that the church is against drinking.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Historians that lived in that era and others would certainly know.

Cato born 234 BC wrote of non-alcoholic wine
Horace 65-8 BC
Pliny born c23 AD
Plutarch
Socrates

All these men wrote of the non-fermented wines, in Bible times. Since they all lived during the times of the prophets and apostles, they would know what wines were used during that time.

 

[annsni]

Historians that lived in that era and others would certainly know.

Cato born 234 BC wrote of non-alcoholic wine
Horace 65-8 BC
Pliny born c23 AD
Plutarch
Socrates

All these men wrote of the non-fermented wines, in Bible times.

Did they use the word yayin in that context?

 

[Brother Bob]

Trust me, I don't think the alcoholics care one iota what the church has to say about alcohol - positive OR negative! Ask a few and I'll bet you that they'll say that the church is against drinking.

Seems this study goes a lot farther than just what you think.

The Meaning of "Wine." The objective of the survey conducted in Chapter 2 was to ascertain if the terms used for "wine" in the Bible denote exclusively fermented wine or inclusively either fermented or unfermented wine. I traced the usage of the word "wine" backward, from English, to Latin, Greek and finally to Hebrew. The survey shows that the four related words—wine in English, vinum in Latin, oinos in Greek and yayin in Hebrew—have been used historically to refer to the juice of the grape, whether fermented or unfermented. This significant finding discredits the claim that the Bible knows only fermented wine, which it approves when used moderately. The truth of the matter is that the Bible knows both fermented wine, which it disapproves, and unfermented grape juice, which it approves.

 

[gb93433]

Historians that lived in that era and others would certainly know.

Cato born 234 BC wrote of non-alcoholic wine
Horace 65-8 BC
Pliny born c23 AD
Plutarch
Socrates

All these men wrote of the non-fermented wines, in Bible times. Since they all lived during the times of the prophets and apostles, they would know what wines were used during that time.

I asked earlier for the references. I still see none. If you have read those authors you could easily provide them.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

The Jewish Encyclopedia provides a concise description of the various usages of yayin: "Fresh wine before fermenting was called ‘yayin mi-gat’’ (wine of the vat; Sanh 70a). The ordinary wine was of current vintage. The vintage of the previous year was called ‘yayin yashan’’(old wine). The third year’s vintage was ‘yayin meyushshan’’(very old wine)." The Jewish Encyclopedia, 1906 ed., s. v. "Wine," vol. 12, p. 533.

MUST, n. [L. mustum; Heb. to ferment.]
New wine; wine pressed from the grape but not fermented. 1828 Websters Dictionary
(one would not think to look for the word 'must' when looking for wine.

 

[gb93433]

Did they use the word yayin in that context?

He does not know. I asked earlier and he continues to spread SYI.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Of course they would know and they would have used the language of their time; yayin, shekar, oinos, they would have known all these words since they lived in that era

 

[gb93433]

MUST, n. [L. mustum; Heb. to ferment.]
New wine; wine pressed from the grape but not fermented. 1828 Websters Dictionary
(one would not think to look for the word 'must' when looking for wine.

I have never seen freshly pressed grape juice instantly turn to wine and burst old wineskins. Have you? When wine ferments it is only then that it can burst old wineskins.

 

[annsni]

Of course they would know and they would have used the language of their time; yayin, shekar, oinos, they would have known all these words since they lived in that era

If I'm not mistaken, didn't they speak Latin and not Hebrew??

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Cato lived in an era when Hebrew was still spoken, he would have been familiar with the Hebrew language.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

I have never seen freshly pressed grape juice instantly turn to wine and burst old wineskins. Have you? When wine ferments it is only then that it can burst old wineskins.

Jesus said when new wine was put into new wineskins, both were preserved. If it was sealed, it was kept new in the new wineskins and did not ferment.

 

[annsni]

Jesus said when new wine was put into new wineskins, both were preserved. If it was sealed, it was kept new in the new wineskins and did not ferment.

Why don't you try that out, give it a few weeks and see what you get.

 

[annsni]

The Jewish Encyclopedia provides a concise description of the various usages of yayin: "Fresh wine before fermenting was called ‘yayin mi-gat’’ (wine of the vat; Sanh 70a). The ordinary wine was of current vintage. The vintage of the previous year was called ‘yayin yashan’’(old wine). The third year’s vintage was ‘yayin meyushshan’’(very old wine)." The Jewish Encyclopedia, 1906 ed., s. v. "Wine," vol. 12, p. 533.

MUST, n. [L. mustum; Heb. to ferment.]
New wine; wine pressed from the grape but not fermented. 1828 Websters Dictionary
(one would not think to look for the word 'must' when looking for wine.

So, as I read that, new wine was yayin migat. The ordinary wine (yayin, I'm guessing) was of current vintage - in other words the wine from that year - NOT new wine. Grape juice fermented very quickly, as we've already pointed out, and, even though it might have had a very small alcohol content, it still had alcohol in it. Now, God even talked of old wine - aged wine - of being even greater.

 

[Brother Bob]

So, as I read that, new wine was yayin migat. The ordinary wine (yayin, I'm guessing) was of current vintage - in other words the wine from that year - NOT new wine. Grape juice fermented very quickly, as we've already pointed out, and, even though it might have had a very small alcohol content, it still had alcohol in it. Now, God even talked of old wine - aged wine - of being even greater.

Well, at least you got it down to a very low content. lol