Calvinism Alone Gives fullest glory and honor to the Grace of God

[JonC]

again in this topic. I see the wrath of God equaling the judgement of God. God judges sin, he must as he is a holy God. So when I see someone say that Jesus took the righteous judgment of God on our behalf. so we would not suffer the wrath of God on the last day.. or his wrath, It does not bother me any.

A greater example I would use is roman 9-11 specifically romans 9

there is a fatalistic interpretation

and then there is a National interpretation.

God does judge sin (He either punishes or forgives). At Judgment Scripture tells us that the wicked will be punished.

My point is at Judgment if one is still a sinner, not conformed to the image of Christ, then they are wicked abd will perish even if they call thenselves "Christian".


The idea that justice demands a punishment for every crime that must be met to bring justice to a state of equilibrium is a 16th century secular philosophy that does not belong in the mind of a believer (or secularly for that matter as it ultimately failed).

The Bible tells God forgives sins, and He does so based on turning from a mind set on the flesh to a mind set on the Spirit. The Bible also explains that our salvation is God's righteousness manifested apart from the law.


God can forgive sins. God does not have to punish sins in order to be just. This forgiveness is based on man being recreated, becoming a new man.

 

[Zaatar71]

God does judge sin (He either punishes or forgives). At Judgment Scripture tells us that the wicked will be punished.

My point is at Judgment if one is still a sinner, not conformed to the image of Christ, then they are wicked abd will perish even if they call thenselves "Christian".


The idea that justice demands a punishment for every crime that must be met to bring justice to a state of equilibrium is a 16th century secular philosophy that does not belong in the mind of a believer (or secularly for that matter as it ultimately failed).

The Bible tells God forgives sins, and He does so based on turning from a mind set on the flesh to a mind set on the Spirit. The Bible also explains that our salvation is God's righteousness manifested apart from the law.


God can forgive sins. God does not have to punish sins in order to be just. This forgiveness is based on man being recreated, becoming a new man.

Here this poster denies the truths of God's holiness and justice in an astounding way. A holy God punishes all sin. To deny this is to deny the fall, and and God's justice. What a sad post this.

 

[Silverhair]

Here this poster denies the truths of God's holiness and justice in an astounding way. A holy God punishes all sin. To deny this is to deny the fall, and and God's justice. What a sad post this.

I am trying to understand your calvinst view on sin and punishment. Who suffers the punishment Z? You only have two options Christ or the person. So if Christ suffered the punishment for all sins then why is anyone judged? If man suffers the punishment for his sins then what is forgiveness of sins all about? Is Christ punished for the persons sins when that person is forgiven?

 

[Zaatar71]

I am trying to understand your calvinst view on sin and punishment. Who suffers the punishment Z? You only have two options Christ or the person. So if Christ suffered the punishment for all sins then why is anyone judged? If man suffers the punishment for his sins then what is forgiveness of sins all about? Is Christ punished for the persons sins when that person is forgiven?

All sin is punished
The unsaved sinner goes to hell...second death

Jesus took the penalty for the sins of the elect in a Covenant death
His righteousness is given to the elect sinner.

 

[Silverhair]

All sin is punished
The unsaved sinner goes to hell...second death

Jesus took the penalty for the sins of the elect in a Covenant death
His righteousness is given to the elect sinner.

Actually Christ did much more than you give Him credit for.

1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Ti 4:10 To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of everyone, and especially of those who believe.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.

Rom 5:6 For at just the right time, while we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom 5:8 But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

So are you telling me that only your so called "elect" were ungodly sinners? If that were true then why are all the non-elect being judged since they were not ungodly sinners.

We are even told why Christ came into this world

Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

1Ti 2:3 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Zaatar71]

Rom 5:6 For at just the right time, while we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom 5:8 But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

So are you telling me that only your so called "elect" were ungodly sinners? If that were true then why are all the non-elect being judged since they were not ungodly sinners.

I will answer this, not for your sake, but for those who will read it.I know you do not.

Romans5 Is speaking only of the Elect. You normally do not pay attention to the context, but for the sake of others we can look here;
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

A] {Only the saved Elect have peace with God. Only the saved Elect are justified. When bible students follow the context, the whole passage opens up.}

2 By whom also [we] have access by faith into this grace wherein [we] stand, and [rejoice in hope] of the glory of God.

b], {we, we, rejoice in hope}......only the justified elect do that.

3 And not only so, but[we glory in tribulations] also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

c] WE glory in tribulation......... still the justified elect!..getting the picture silverhair?


4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; [because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.]

d] Here we are told where the love of God is, in the heart of the justified Elect.


6 For when [we] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

e] Still the justified ELECT

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward [us,] in that, while[ we] were yet sinners, Christ died for[ us.]

f ] we, we, us, still the justified elect.



9 Much more then, [being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.]

G] justified, we, saved from wrath, ...the justified ELECT


10 For if, when [we] were enemies, [we] were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, [being reconciled], [we] shall be saved by his life.


H] we, we, being reconciled, we shall be saved......the justified ELECT


11 And not only so, but [we also joy in God] through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [we have now received the atonement.]

Only the justified elect are in view!

 

[Silverhair]

I will answer this, not for your sake, but for those who will read it.I know you do not.

Romans5 Is speaking only of the Elect. You normally do not pay attention to the context, but for the sake of others we can look here;
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

A] {Only the saved Elect have peace with God. Only the saved Elect are justified. When bible students follow the context, the whole passage opens up.}

2 By whom also [we] have access by faith into this grace wherein [we] stand, and [rejoice in hope] of the glory of God.

b], {we, we, rejoice in hope}......only the justified elect do that.

3 And not only so, but[we glory in tribulations] also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

c] WE glory in tribulation......... still the justified elect!..getting the picture silverhair?


4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; [because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.]

d] Here we are told where the love of God is, in the heart of the justified Elect.


6 For when [we] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

e] Still the justified ELECT

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward [us,] in that, while[ we] were yet sinners, Christ died for[ us.]

f ] we, we, us, still the justified elect.



9 Much more then, [being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.]

G] justified, we, saved from wrath, ...the justified ELECT


10 For if, when [we] were enemies, [we] were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, [being reconciled], [we] shall be saved by his life.


H] we, we, being reconciled, we shall be saved......the justified ELECT


11 And not only so, but [we also joy in God] through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [we have now received the atonement.]

Only the justified elect are in view!

Z you blew it with your first comment. "Romans5 Is speaking only of the Elect."

 

[JonC]

I am trying to understand your calvinst view on sin and punishment. Who suffers the punishment Z? You only have two options Christ or the person. So if Christ suffered the punishment for all sins then why is anyone judged? If man suffers the punishment for his sins then what is forgiveness of sins all about? Is Christ punished for the persons sins when that person is forgiven?

Calvinism is only consistent within a very small box. Start looking around and it falls apart.

If redemotion is God punishing our sins in Jesus instead if us, then why did Jesus have to die at all as we still die.

If we are recreated and are being conformed into the image of Christ then why punish our sins at all as on "the day of wrath" we would be new creations in the image of Christ rather than wicked?

If God must punish sins then how can God forgive sins (God can't both punish and forgive the same sins).

Why does God do what He said is an abomination?

Why does the Bible repeatedly tell us God forgives sins when men turn from themselves and to Him, yet never once say God forgives sins by punishing then on Jesus?

Why does God say sins will not be transferred from one to another if that is what He does (and He would obviously be ine only one who could do it).


Calvinism is a stand alone philosophy. Scripture only gets in the way. And even then it is juvenile in its logic.

 

[Zaatar71]

Z you blew it with your first comment. "Romans5 Is speaking only of the Elect."

This shows you are not quite capable of understanding the post.

 

[Silverhair]

This shows you are not quite capable of understanding the post.

Oh I understand it quite well I just do not accept your calvinist slant on the word of God.

 

[Ben1445]

I am trying to understand your calvinst view on sin and punishment. Who suffers the punishment Z? You only have two options Christ or the person. So if Christ suffered the punishment for all sins then why is anyone judged? If man suffers the punishment for his sins then what is forgiveness of sins all about? Is Christ punished for the persons sins when that person is forgiven?

The unbeliever is still in their sins. The fact that Christ is the propitiation for the whole world does not constitute universalism. It does not also imply that there cannot be judgment reserved for the unbelievers.

 

[Zaatar71]

Oh I understand it quite well I just do not accept your calvinist slant on the word of God.

If you do not understand Romans 5...that tells us what we need to know about you...lol