Christians, War, and Violence

[GoodTidings]

[Mat 5:38-39 KJV] 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

[Mat 5:43-44 KJV] 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

That has to do with personal relationships. That's the context. It is not saying anything about military service, nor does it speak against self-defense.

 

[MartyF]

WWJD?

How many women were raped around Jesus? How many innocent people were murdered around Jesus? How many apostles were beat or killed around Jesus? Who murdered Mary when Jesus was around?

Jesus made sure that people did not suffer or die around him. I believe that he would want us to do the same. I believe how to do this is more nuanced.

 

[MartyF]

How do you balance living in a violent world with the teachings of Christ? For starters, I believe God is the same God of war as always. But the role of believers is different in the New Covenant. That is, we love our enemies, turn the other cheek when attacked. We do not resist violence but abandon it to the Lord who says vengeance belongs to him.

So I do not serve in the military or become a police officer whose life depends on doing the opposite of these. If an intruder tries to kill me or my family, I would rather we die upholding Jesus’ words than disobey only to suffer death from old age. Any alternative views on this?

Do you take the more moderate viewpoint of refusing to kill to someone to defend yourself? Or do you take the more extreme viewpoint of also refusing to do any violence including grappling someone or punching someone to stop them from killing someone else? Would you refuse to use a taser or pepper spray to stop someone?​

 

[FollowTheWay]

That has to do with personal relationships. That's the context. It is not saying anything about military service, nor does it speak against self-defense.

I disagree. But if you can find scriptural support for your position I will consider changing.

 

[InTheLight]

Jhn 18:10 KJV - Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

I believe Simon Peter missed his mark. He was attempting to separate the servant;s head from his body. When he drew his sword, he had no intention of cutting off a ear.

Gotta love mind readers. Retroactively across 20 centuries is quite a feat, too.

 

[HankD]

there are quite a few who have a conversion (or whatever your terminology) AFTER going into the military, during their assignment.

this was my experience. midway in my enlistment i was saved (enlightened).

yes there was some conflict afterwards but not much. i felt my effort against godless tyrannical communism a good thing (and still do).

i hoped i would not have to be part of destroying innocent life and as it were i was not called upon to do so.

 

[GoodTidings]

I disagree. But if you can find scriptural support for your position I will consider changing.

Jesus is talking to Christians about personal relationships. He is not talking about nations conducting war. That is apparent from the passage YOU provided.

If your family was attacked would you just stand there and let them be injured and killed and not protect them? Do you think Jesus would want you to let your family be attacked?

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Gotta love mind readers. Retroactively across 20 centuries is quite a feat, too.

Thanks for reading my post and commenting on my opinion.

 

[Rob_BW]

There is NO evidence that they did not leave their post when it was afforded them to. If they stayed in Christ most definitely they would not continue in the service of country and men but rather the Kingdom of heaven for the sake of men's souls, FOR SURE!

So anyone who has a secular job isn't a Christian?

If a carpenter or plumber can share the Gospel during their day to day walk, so can a soldier.

 

[HankD]

I disagree. But if you can find scriptural support for your position I will consider changing.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Hitler found out this to be true.

 

[tyndale1946]

WWJD?

Dave, Dave, Dave... I'm not Jesus... I wore the same uniform that Mitchell wore... Sworn to defend my country from all enemies foreign and domestic... As I heard my friend who has been a pastor over 60 years say... You can say what you would do and may convince others of the same but you have no idea of your course of action until the moment comes?... I and Mitchell and the others on here were willing to sacrifice our lives so you didn't have to... Did we do it because we were vindictive?... I can't speak for others on here I let them speak for themselves, I did it because it was my duty and honor to protect others. even you... Who would not even be on the BB if we didn't... What if God told Israel to fight and they sat on the seat of do nothing... God is a God of War... And we must defend our family and our freedoms at all cost... Speaking of wives the scriptures also say this... Brother Glen

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

 

[Adonia]

Paul was guarded by the Pretorian guard and they were getting saved. There was no evidence that they ever left their post.

Just like when the centurion asked Jesus to heal his servant. Jesus never told him to come out from the army and find another line of work.

 

[Adonia]

As bad as Dave is doing in this thread, he's getting destroyed on ChristianForums for posting the same topic and the same Unbiblical, illogical arguments.

If I remember right, he posted the same type of thread in the past. He sure is a glutton for punishment.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

That is not true. There are Chaplains in the military that are reaching soldiers for Jesus. But those Chaplains are still soldiers themselves. They are not telling anyone to leave the military.

You don't know what you're talking about. And you are still enjoying the fruit that was gained through those men who fought and died so you could remain free. You enjoy the fruit of their sacrifice while you demonize them. You are a disgrace.

No I know exactly what I am talking about you just do not like it. . Who demonized anyone? I am simply teaching what the scriptures clearly say. Take it up with Christ. If you find something different concerning the season once the Prince of Peace already came I'll accept it. But I say that knowing I am right because there is nothing that says that season is over but rather still growing to His desired end. If the Chaplain is Christ and spoke the good news and is the Prince of peace, then Christ has changed His mind.

We know he is not, so I'll obey Christ whether men like it or not. If you or any Military want to take my freedom away ,you would have no power to do that if not given by God. If a country want's to support and act on behalf of the greater good then that is for their benefit. However, I am simply telling you and anyone , the FIRST fruits are not soldiers for the Armed Forces but soldiers for Christ. Because HE SAID SO.

And to whomever called people with my mind frame a pacifist
Bench Press this:

Christianity is not for the faint of heart. Prove Christ wrong, then maybe I'll take your word as Bond! i go into the battle with spiritual weapons, and I may even be lead to the slaughter, HIS will be done!
I clearly posted what Paul said. Stay within the Calling in which you received Christ. However,he also said if you can gain your freedom do so. Christ is a man's judge , I did NOT say anything Bad about anyone. Only that people who did not receive the truth before they enrolled into the Armed Forces, are not free. You are a slave to the government. You can not do as you please when you please. If Deployed, you must fight and kill for whatever cause it sees fit.

Christ delivers His own no matter their station.

But don't you tell me that I am demonizing anyone for speaking what the scriptures say. Prove what I posted wrong first! Did Christ state something contrary?.

First fruits are for God alone, Period! And that is all I said and is what I defend!

HE DIED FOR MY LIBERATION, Period! Where I am born and the customs, laws and practice applied of those who rule countries is the Leaders choice. It is Christianity that tempered men and if not for Christ we would still have a barbaric system like that of Rome or be like the Muslims. It is because of Christ that their is any form of real consideration toward Christians in any nation. hence why in nations that reject Him their are no right's for Christians. That will soon even be evident in Israel.But that is for another post.

POINT: If your design is that of the remaining fruit (second fruit), that is for God to know. But for sure First fruits are God's alone. Prove that wrong. And that is what I was talking about. May God Bless you!

 

[Van]

OT believers followed a different plan from NT believers.

Right and what about the Centurion under the New Covenant. Your interpretation is flawed. Acting under the color of authority, such as military or police, Christians can and do employ deadly force to protect others.

Scripture offers three cases, acting individually, acting as the church, and acting under government authority.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Just like when the centurion asked Jesus to heal his servant. Jesus never told him to come out from the army and find another line of work.

Christ did not tell him, but if he continued in the faith he put in Christ he would eventually serve Christ alone.Christ would make a way. If you are telling me that a Centurion , after beholding and experiencing the glory of God would not want that over doing the biding of Rome then he did not see His glory. The Centurion would call upon Christ if He died in war or if his time was up in service he would encourage men to enter the good fight. Again Paul said it clearly:
1 Corinthians 7:20-22
Live Your Calling
…20Each one should remain in the situation he was in (when he was called). 21Were you a slave when you were called? Do not let it concern you, but if you can gain your freedom, take the opportunity. 22For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord’s freedman. Conversely, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ’s slave.…
23You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24Brothers, each one should remain in the situation he was in when God called him.

In other words, if Christ called you and you are not in the Armed Forces , don't join the Armed forces. If He called you while you are in the Armed Force do not leave the Armed forces, but know as Christ's ,He will work all things out for your good.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Do you take the more moderate viewpoint of refusing to kill to someone to defend yourself? Or do you take the more extreme viewpoint of also refusing to do any violence including grappling someone or punching someone to stop them from killing someone else? Would you refuse to use a taser or pepper spray to stop someone?​

Personally I would probably react as Peter did, which is similar to what Moses did. INTENT , I believe is what is considered by God. Both of these men were not looking to harm anyone. Out of impulse at seeing injustice they were compelled to act, in the moment.
But Peter did not fight against anyone with the sword after that, even when he and his wife were lead to their death. If someone broke into my house and wanted to kill my children or rape us my husband would blow the intruders brains out! If I were home alone and that were to happen I would shoot the intruder in his legs.

I believe that Christ was teaching the Church that it will be difficult to not react. I believe it is as Christ said: " As long as this world stands there will always be scandal but WOE to him through whom scandal comes". I believe the WOE is upon the one who provokes.

But concerning a lot of the garbage going on today, if people were really paying attention they would see, entering into countries that have a different rule of government and toppling their kingdoms and making things worse than they were, in the name of democracy, is not good. People like in Libya, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Egypt were far better off before America's polices. They are use to a certain type, and many even wish things would return the way they were. As much as the Fake news media (all of it including Fox ), reports its spin and how all bad guys want war, it is really the bad guys who own most everything who want it.The Media especially the right wing media, forgets what they report. You go back and their stories are about as whole as Swiss cheese. The left are just wacky and make the right look good.

If our homeland is threatened, or people are being treated barbarically then nations should act on behalf of the greater good. America does not do too much for Africa concerning the genocide of Christians and the poverty. Missionaries are on those front lines without guns mind you.

All the other garbage is just elitist self serving polices to put kings in submission, if not submission , toppling and death through the might of the US. Then a puppet ruler is put in, while America on behalf of so called "Zionist" confiscate the natural resources of that nation, or at least take control of whatever drums up revenue for it and set up a central banking system. But if you are an African nation who cares about your plight or the War lords. It takes a lot to get America to react to those things.

I will not encourage my son's or anyone to join the Armed Forces. But I would say it is right to take up arms on behalf of defense of your nation and those of your home.

 

[HankD]

Yes, anyone with the Spirit of the Living God circulating through their spiritual arteries longs for the day when this is our constitution in truth:

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Until such time I agree (for the most part) with OLWs' preceding post.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Taking my purse or cloak or taking my child is not the same thing I would do all within my power to protect my child. Seeing someone in front of my face being attacked who is innocent I would react.

As a matter of fact, one night my husband and I and our children went to the grocery store and some punks were looking to rob people in the parking lot. I was in the truck with our kids and my husband was in the store. This kid approached a woman on his bike and he took something out of his pocket. She backed up visibly scared. I said dear God don't put me in this position . I laid on the horn and he looked at me but continued to confront the woman. I prayed again, because I was going to start the truck and threaten to run him down if he continued. I laid on the horn long and hard and then he took off but not before coming up to the truck as he rode by . I rolled down the window and told him he does not want to go there.

If it were just about me I would turn the other cheek . If I were to be threatened with death for my faith , I would accept it, I pray that never happens but, if it is God's will, I pray I do as I am called to do, serve my faith to my end even if I am to be martyred .

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Shortly after I was saved, I resigned as a cop, not because of sonetimes having to use violence, but because of some common practices in the Dept. of using dishonesty to get around rules of evidence to obtain convictions.

I won't hesitate to defend family or myself, if necessary, against violence with whatever it takes. An intruder would be greeted with either a 12 G. shotgun blast of 000 shot, or a fusillade of .45 ACP "Home Defense" rounds.

Jesus told the disciples to buy some swprds, and as they already had two, He said that was enough. He intended that they should defend themselves against bandits. And Jesus Himself VIOLENTLY expelled the merchants from the temple grounds.

EVERY man (or single mom) should defend his/her family with whatever it takes! I believe to not do so is a sin.

Ironic... look who gave you a metal