Conditional Salvation

[Alan Gross]

You are going to have a tough time convincing me Jesus having UNCONDITIONAL HATRED for people is our example to follow and not a sin at all.

God Hates sin.

All humans are sinners.

Sin against God Must Be Punished, Eternally, for sin against The Eternal Holy God.

Every soul would Suffer Everlasting Hell Fire, as Punishment for their personal sins.

That is Hate.

There are some sins more especially which Provoke God to Anger.

See if you can go to this link, for 14 blogs on The Hatred and Anger of God:

WordPress.com

 

[Alan Gross]

". . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. . . ." -- Isaiah 53:6.

". . . And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. . . ." -- 1 Corinthians 15:17.

". . . he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, . . ." -- Ephesians 1:4.

". . . Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience . . . ." -- 1 Peter 1:2.

" . . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ." -- 2 Timothy 2:25.

" like sheep" is a simile for the lost soul, in:

". . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. . . ." -- Isaiah 53:6.

...

"If" is the consideration made, hypothetically, of there being no Accomplishment of Salvation, by Jesus' Death, Burial, and Resurrection, in:

". . . And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. . . ." -- 1 Corinthians 15:17.

...

"us" is speaking of God's Eternally Elected, God Gave to Jesus, to Purchase with His Blood, in:

". . . he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, . . ." -- Ephesians 1:4.

...

Saved children of God Will Be Enable to Perform what God Has Chosen to Have them Be Obediant to, in:

". . . Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience . . . ." -- 1 Peter 1:2.
...

Lost souls Must Be Given REPENTANCE TOWARD GOD along with FAITH in JESUS' Death, Burial, and Resurrection.

That is why lost souls never talk about

"Lost souls Must Be Given REPENTANCE TOWARD GOD along with FAITH in JESUS' Death, Burial, and Resurrection",

because they Gospel is hid to them that are lost.

We talk to them and tell the God Commands them to REPENT:

" . . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ." -- 2 Timothy 2:25.

 

[3rdAngel]

False gospel of trusting in faith and works of faith?

Nope!

We are saved by GRACE through FAITH and not of ourselves it is a GIFT of God and now of works lest any man should boast. *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. OBEDIENCE or FOLLOWING God's Word is not how we are saved it is the FRUITof God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments), not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10.

This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

The "ANOTHER GOSPEL" or "FALSE GOSPEL" of "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" is not biblical and has it's origin from the father of lies first proclaimed in the garden of Eden to EVE when the devil said you can break God's commandments and not surely die *GENESIS 3:1-5. EVE believed your teaching and it resulted in the death of humanity and the fall of mankind. Sadly this is what you are teaching here. Salvation and all of God's promises are "CONDITIONAL" on believing and following God's Word. You are teaching another Gospel. May you hear God's Word. These are God's Word not mine and you do not believe them.

Furthermore repentance precedes the faith, Mark 1:15; 2 Timothy 2:25, ". . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ." ". . . For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:: Not of works, . . ." -- Ephesians 2:8-9.

Nope! Let's examine the scriptures you have provided that you say teach that repentance preceeds faith?

1. MARK 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent you, and believe the gospel.

Note: This scripture does not say repentance comes before faith. It says to repent and believe what? "THE GOSPEL" Another words REPENT AND BELIEVE GOD'S WORD! Sorry the scripture you have provided does not support what you are claiming...

2. 2 TIMOTHY 2:25, In meekness INSTRUCTING THOSE WHO OPPOSE THEMSELVES; if God peradventure will give them repentance TO THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF THE TRUTH;

Note: This scripture does not say repentance comes before faith. It says that we should INSTRUCT these people that oppose themselves with GOD'S WORD in meekness that they may acknowledge the truth. God's WORD defines the truth as God's Word! *JOHN 17:17. Sorry all the scriptures you have provided do not support what you are claiming! Can you see your error here?

How can you have repentance when you do not know you need to repent? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *ROMANS 10:17. If there is no Word, there can be no faith. If there is no Word and you do not believe (have faith) than you can have no repentance because repentance comes by BELIEVING God's WORD!

This is only sent in love and as a help to you. My prayer is that you may accept it in the Spirit it was given (love).

Hope this helps.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ Your confused as to who the elect are. The elect are all those who believe and follow God's Word.

Your response...

I agree. They are also those that are foreknown, predestinated, called, justified and glorified ( Romans 8:28-30 ), chosen to salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ), chosen "in Him" from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ) and whose place in the kingdom of God was prepared for them from the foundation of the world ( Matthew 25:34 ).

I am glad you agree. Your confusion is in your understanding of ROMANS 8:29-30 and 2 THESSALONIANS 2:13-14 and MATTHEW 25:34 in which you believe the elect here mean once saved always saved. That belief is not biblical. The elect here spoken of are only in reference to those who believe and follow God's Word (present tense). It is only those who believe and follow God's Word to the end (death or 2nd coming) that receive eternal life *JAMES 1:12. God knowing all things and developing the plan of salvation before the fall makes no difference to what is being shared with you here as it is these scriptures are only in reference to those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word to the end.

For example...

ROMANS 8:29-30 [29] For whom he did FORKNOW, he also did PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. [30] Moreover whom he did PREDESTINATE, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Note the the chapter CONTEXT is to those who BY FAITH BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and walk in His Spirit *ROMANS 8:1-28. These scripture say God FORKNEW those who would BELIEVE and FOLLOW His Word and those who would not. Those who God FORKNEW would believe and follow His Word he did PREDESTINATE to be conformed into His image, justified and glorifies them. These scriptures do not say as you interpret them that God chooses people from the beginning and everyone else as a result is lost outside of faith. The Gospel commission is given to the world that all may have the chance to choose to believe or not believe God's Word *JOHN 3:15-21; MATTHEW 24:14. Only those who endure to the end however will receieve eternal life *JAMES 1:12

2 THESSALONIANS 2:13-14 [13], But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brothers beloved of the Lord, because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation THROUGH SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT AND BELIEF IN THE TRUTH: [14], WHEREUNTO HE CALLED YOU BY OUR GOSPEL, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ

Note: these scriptures agree with ROMANS 8:29-30 that God calls BELIEVERS through His WORD *JOHN 17:17 as they BELIEVE the TRUTH of the GOSPEL! These are God's ELECT! God chooses us as from the start as we BELIEVE and follow His WORD! These scripture do not say that people are called to God without and outside of BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD! God being God knows all things and who will choose salvation and who will not choose salvation. Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word are God's ELECT as they choose to BELIEVE and follow God's Word. It is only those who choose to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word enduring temptation to the end that receive eternal life and are God's true ELECT! *JAMES 1:12.

EPHESIANS 1:4-5 [4], According as he has chosen US IN HIM (believers) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: [5], Having predestinated us to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Note: who has God chosen? US THAT ARE IN HIM! These are they that BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word. God's FORKNOWING all thing developed the plan of salvation before the foundation of the World that those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word and accept God's gift of salvation through JESUS might be saved. God chooses or has chosen us as we believe and follow His Word. It is only those who endure temptation to the end however that receive eternal life *JAMES 1:12.

It is God's Word not mine that says God's ELECT are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word not me. I choose to believe God's Word and so sould you.

Hope this helps.

 

[Alan Gross]

Nope!

We are saved by GRACE through FAITH and not of ourselves it is a GIFT of God and now of works lest any man should boast. *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. OBEDIENCE or FOLLOWING God's Word is not how we are saved it is the FRUITof God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments), not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10.

This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

The "ANOTHER GOSPEL" or "FALSE GOSPEL" of "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" is not biblical and has it's origin from the father of lies first proclaimed in the garden of Eden to EVE when the devil said you can break God's commandments and not surely die *GENESIS 3:1-5. EVE believed your teaching and it resulted in the death of humanity and the fall of mankind. Sadly this is what you are teaching here. Salvation and all of God's promises are "CONDITIONAL" on believing and following God's Word. You are teaching another Gospel. May you hear God's Word. These are God's Word not mine and you do not believe them.

Nope! Let's examine the scriptures you have provided that you say teach that repentance preceeds faith?

1. MARK 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent you, and believe the gospel.

Note: This scripture does not say repentance comes before faith. It says to repent and believe what? "THE GOSPEL" Another words REPENT AND BELIEVE GOD'S WORD! Sorry the scripture you have provided does not support what you are claiming...

2. 2 TIMOTHY 2:25, In meekness INSTRUCTING THOSE WHO OPPOSE THEMSELVES; if God peradventure will give them repentance TO THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF THE TRUTH;

Note: This scripture does not say repentance comes before faith. It says that we should INSTRUCT these people that oppose themselves with GOD'S WORD in meekness that they may acknowledge the truth. God's WORD defines the truth as God's Word! *JOHN 17:17. Sorry all the scriptures you have provided do not support what you are claiming! Can you see your error here?

How can you have repentance when you do not know you need to repent? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *ROMANS 10:17. If there is no Word, there can be no faith. If there is no Word and you do not believe (have faith) than you can have no repentance because repentance comes by BELIEVING God's WORD!

This is only sent in love and as a help to you. My prayer is that you may accept it in the Spirit it was given (love).

Hope this helps.

Reject. Done.

 

[3rdAngel]

Reject. Done.

Sorry Alan, only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it and we should reject anything that is not biblical *ROMANS 3:4. I only believe God's Word and so should you. "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" is a false gospel developed only to lead all who follow it away from God's Word.

 

[37818]

. . . you believe the elect here mean once saved always saved. That belief is not biblical. . . .

I know it was not written to me. So my question then, Do you deny God being aboslutely omniscient in His foreknowing? ". . .Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and . . . ." -- 1 Peter 1:2.

 

[tyndale1946]

Sorry Alan, only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it and we should reject anything that is not biblical *ROMANS 3:4. I only believe God's Word and so should you. "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" is a false gospel developed only to lead all who follow it away from God's Word.

You want to follow the law and think you can follow the conditions for Salvation?... OK!... My Salvation is based upon the obedience of Christ, not the obedience of me... I try to serve my Lord and Master every day but because of the two-fold creature I am there is a warfare and sometimes I win and sometime I don't... I don't know about you but that is trials of the child of God everyday... We ALL walk with feet of clay... So the law will save you?... Then do you mind explaining this scripture?... Brother Glen

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

[3rdAngel]

I know it was not written to me. So my question then, Do you deny God being aboslutely omniscient in His foreknowing? ". . .Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and . . . ." -- 1 Peter 1:2.

No! God knowing the end from the beginning does not mean the invitation of salvation is not given to all mankind. If God's invitation of salvation is for ALL MANKIND it does not mean all mankind will accept God's invitation because the scriptures teach men love darkness rather then light because they love sin more than they love God *MATTHEW 28:19-20; MATTHEW 24:14; JOHN 3:19;

 

[tyndale1946]

You want to follow the law and think you can follow the conditions for Salvation?... OK!... My Salvation is based upon the obedience of Christ, not the obedience of me... I try to serve my Lord and Master every day but because of the two-fold creature I am there is a warfare and sometimes I win and sometime I don't... I don't know about you but that is trials of the child of God everyday... We ALL walk with feet of clay... So the law will save you?... Then do you mind explaining this scripture?... Brother Glen

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

No matter what you do, is not going to save you!

 

[3rdAngel]

You want to follow the law and think you can follow the conditions for Salvation?... OK!... My Salvation is based upon the obedience of Christ, not the obedience of me... I try to serve my Lord and Master every day but because of the two-fold creature I am there is a warfare and sometimes I win and sometime I don't... I don't know about you but that is trials of the child of God everyday... We ALL walk with feet of clay... So the law will save you?... Then do you mind explaining this scripture?... Brother Glen

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Please do not making things up no one has ever said or believes. We are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. If we are born again to love God we follow him not because we are saved by the things we do but because we love God who saves us from our sins. This is God's work not ours as we believe his Word.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who are not Gods sheep do not hear his Voice and do not follow *JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27.

 

[37818]

No! God knowing the end from the beginning does not mean the invitation of salvation is not given to all mankind.

No. Just because God foreknows who will be saved and who will not does not need to mean God has not made some kind of provision (1 John 2:2) for the salvation of everyone, of course, not everyone is being saved (Revelation 21:7-8).

If God's invitation of salvation is for ALL MANKIND it does not mean all mankind will accept God's invitation because the scriptures teach men love darkness rather then light because they love sin more than they love God *MATTHEW 28:19-20; MATTHEW 24:14; JOHN 3:19;

Agreed.

So do you or do you not believe God definitly knows who are to be saved?

 

[3rdAngel]

No. Just because God foreknows who will be saved and who will not does not need to mean God has not made some kind of provision (1 John 2:2) for the salvation of everyone, of course, not everyone is being saved (Revelation 21:7-8). Agreed. So do you or do you not believe God definitly knows who are to be saved?

I am not sure if you understood the post. The post was saying God knows the end from the beginning. He knew mankind would fall from the foundation of the world and already made a plan to save him just the same as he already knows who will accept his invitation which is given to all mankind and who would not.

 

[37818]

I am not sure if you understood the post. The post was saying God knows the end from the beginning. He knew mankind would fall from the foundation of the world and already made a plan to save him just the same as he already knows who will accept his invitation which is given to all mankind and who would not.

What I wanted to know from you was your understanding on those matters.

Here is a why. There are narratives which depict God's knowing who are ultimately saved and who ultimately reject His word to their condemnation. Wheat and chaff (Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17). Wheat and tares (Matthew 13:24-30; Matthew 13:36-42). The sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-46).
What is note worthy about these three narratives, is chaff does not become wheat and wheat does not turn into chaff. The tares do not become good seed and the good seed do not turn into tares. Like wise goats do not become sheep, nor sheep into goats. These narratives depict the ultimate out comes as God sees them.

 

[37818]

A fundamental condition of obtaining salvation is the receiving of salvation as a gift.

[Romans 6:23. Ephesians 2:8.]

Two views of the nature of the gift.

OSAS the gift cannot be lost, because it is kept by God for the recipient.

Versus.

That one who is saved can lose salvation, because the gift must be kept by the recipient.

Which type of gift? Choice or preference does not determine the nature of the gift. Truth does.

From a OSAS view point it is a free gift versus a gift with strings attached.

From the view point the saved can loose salvation the two views of the gift are to be compared how?

 

[MB]

Hi MB
She was already saved when she washed His feet. Her faith is what caused her to wash them.
She did not need salvation when she washed His feet she already possessed it.
He said she was saved because of her faith not because she washed His feet.
She did not need to keep herself saved, Jesus and the Father keeps us safe and saved.

John 10
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

This is the wonderful news of the gospel.

The wonderful news of the gospel is that faith saves.
Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Christ first forgave her sins which Christ said were many.
You make the claim that she was already saved. Just where does scripture say that?
Why not read it for your self from verse 44 to 50 in Luke
MB

 

[HankD]

The wonderful news of the gospel is that faith saves.
Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Christ first forgave her sins which Christ said were many.
You make the claim that she was already saved. Just where does scripture say that?
Why not read it for your self from verse 44 to 50 in Luke
MB

i don't need to read it again MB.

I have never had a problem with it.

I am already saved but JESUS forgives me daily (1 John 1:9).

MB I have yet to find a mold I can pour GOD into (psalm 113;5).

 

[MB]

i don't need to read it again MB.

I have never had a problem with it.

I am already saved but JESUS forgives me daily (1 John 1:9).

MB I have yet to find a mold I can pour GOD into (psalm 113;5).

I do not try to mold God but, I do take Him at His word. I believe what scripture says you however do not. You read it then try to reason it fit Calvinism. there fore you do not believe the word but rather what you try to make it say.
MB

 

[37818]

. . . you do not believe the word . . .

You do not know that. Just because one understands a Scripture different than you does not necessarily mean unbelief. I am not a Calvinist yet I generally agree with the 1st and 5th points of the 5, TULIP.

 

[HankD]

I do not try to mold God but, I do take Him at His word. I believe what scripture says you however do not. You read it then try to reason it fit Calvinism. there fore you do not believe the word but rather what you try to make it say.
MB

MB You do not know me or you would know i am not a Calvinist and very vocal about it, however i am no arminian either.