Well I don't blame you for not wanting to be considered either. I my self do not hold to the doctrines of men. However sometimes it seem that you are Calvinist is some of your ideas.
MB
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Conditional Salvation
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MB
When scripture is read with your head filled with ideas of people like Augustine no wonder you're confused. The first and the last doctrines of the tulip are not found in scripture. Of course this is a free country you can believe what you want instead of what God wants.
MB
Particular
Well-Known Member
37818
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Ok. There are points of disagreement. Based on your comment, "The first and the last doctrines of the tulip are not found in scripture," I need to ask you few questions. But will limit them to two.
What do you believe Romans 3:11 means when it says "none?" ". . . There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. . . ."
Do you believe knowing one now has eternal life per 1 John 5:13 is false? You understand if salvation had and can be lost, then no one can actually know, until they have part in the first resurrection.
With out doubt they are the doctrines of men.Not found in scripture.
I fail to see how since I Quote it from scripture what I believe. I do not have to elaborate it in to something scripture does not say.
MB
Particular
Well-Known Member
Paul is quoting at least in part what David said the fool has said in his heart.
Psa 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psa 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
Psa 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
These are things the fool has said. He doesn't believe there is a God and he stands in judgement of those who do believe.
Paul after his quote of David, says;
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Where does Paul agree with Total depravity in that man is unable to respond to the gospel with out regeneration? He doesn't say those things at all. What was his point in the quote? His point IMO was that all men are sinful creatures but there is nothing about any disability to hear or understand.
Being spiritually dead is impossible. The term is a figure of speech. With out the spirit of man he cannot live at all.
Paul also wrote;
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
This verse disproves the Calvinist theory that the natural man does not understand. and is unable to be saved with out being saved first or should I say regenerated.
#5 Perseverance of the saints. What do we have to persevere? My faith gets stronger every day from studying my Bible. Is this a work? Because I didn't find it unpleasant at all. To work means to perform a task. I was enjoying it. It was pleasurable I didn't have to work for my Salvation nor do I have to work to keep it. God does not persevere us God has sealed us. Our Salvation is sealed by the Holy Spirit. We have eternal life and no one can snatch us out of His hand. I've been saved since I was 14 years old. God directs my path every day. I know I am saved even though some Calvinist on this board have said I'm not saved, because I disagree with there false doctrines. I now disagree with yours.
MB
Your are forgetting that scripture was dictated by God to men. It's called God's word because it is. You want to think man wrote the Bible go ahead but I will not join you on that one.
Not to mention you need to take a course in English what you write is garbled and hard to understand
You said "Any opinion you take from scripture from men." It isn't clear if you are speaking about scripture or men.
MB
Particular
Well-Known Member
I didn't say man wrote the Bible.
I said that when you interpret the Bible and share that interpretation, you speak your doctrine of man.
Every human who tries to explain what God says is speaking their doctrine.
I'm new here. Do you only quote the Bible and never attempt to explain it? If so, then God's word speaks on its own. If you attempt to explain it, that becomes your doctrine of man.
As long as there is scripture that pertains to it yes. Things that are not in scripture maybe and maybe not. It's simple There is no total inability because of the spirit being dead because, the spirit is not dead but only considered dead. The human spirit is alive as long as the body is animated. The bible clearly states we are not held responsible for the sins of our fathers. Total depravity seeks to make men responsible for the sins of Adam. Why am I telling you. You know what you believe. Prove total depravity to be true with scripture. You can't do it.
MB
Not so my explanations match that of what the Bible is saying. For example I quoted Psalms 14 in an earlier post says that the fool has said in his heart there is no God. You read Psalms 14:1 and see for your self. The whole Psalm is what the fool has said.
This is your opinion and my doctrine is that of Christ and you don't know what you are talking about. Your trying to tell me I'm the same as you in my doctrine. You don't know me or anything about me. You can follow men if that's you thing but. I'll follow Christ. I do not interpret scripture differently than what it clearly says. It does not need interpretation. I suppose your analyst of what I'm saying is as flawed as your doctrine.
MB
Particular
Well-Known Member
Every person who interprets the Bible thinks their opinion matches the Bible. What makes your opinion special above all others that have ever read the Bible and shared their opinion? There are commentators who go verse by verse while sharing their understanding of the verse. Do you mean to tell me that you have a more perfect insight to the Bible than all the commentators that have ever lived or read the Bible?
Jesus Christ and His word
Not if what I state about it lines up with what scripture actually says. It's when men take a little bit of scripture and place there spin on it. Like what is done in Calvinism.
This is not the subject of this thread. You are derailing the thread. If you wish to talk about this then start a new thread
MB
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If all you can do is judge me then talk to your self I haven't got the time to put up with you.
I'll just ignore your replies.
Particular
Well-Known Member
I'm not judging. I am asking you a question? It seems you don't want to answer.
In this thread, you trash Calvinist and Arminian interpretation of Bible verses. You call their interpretation "doctrines of men." But, when you quote the scripture (just like they quote the scripture) and when you interpret scripture (just like they interpret scripture), you don't seem willing to admit that you are doing exactly what theologians have been doing for millenniums. You have created a "doctrine of man" (assuming you are human) based upon your reading and interpretation of scripture. I am not putting you down. I am simply observing that you and the large number of theologians past and present are all attempting to understand God and express it from your limited, human perspective.
What is odd in this situation is that you seem to think your interpretation is superior to all other humans both past and present. Does that not strike you as odd?
Scripture gives easy checks and balances for itself.
1 Corinthians 13
1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
I've yet to see anyone pull out total depravity from scriptures. I've only seen people start with the philosophy first then spot it here it is over here and there.
You can teach us total depravity in one straight line. And yet the charge is the author of scripture is so incompetent he could not word it better then we can.
Particular
Well-Known Member
How close is this?
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I'd say it goes right along with this:
" What then? are we better [than they?] No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:
14 whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:
15 their feet [are] swift to shed blood:
16 destruction and misery [are] in their ways:
17 and the way of peace have they not known:
18 there is no fear of God before their eyes." ( Romans 3:9-18 )
....and every other word that condemns us as sinners.
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