Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Ok. I like the Divine office ( Liturgy of the Hours). However, there are many devotions I take issue with.
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Devotion to Mary 2
- Thread starter Jkdbuck76
- Start date
Ok. I like the Divine office ( Liturgy of the Hours). However, there are many devotions I take issue with.
Last I checked, Baptists didn't pray to the chair or the Bible.
I do agree! Faith comes from hearing the word of God. Well established and true. However, I disagree with your assertion that knowing the Lord is found mostly in Evangelical circles. That is just not the case in my part of woods.
My experience is that the churches that still believe and preach God's word result in conversion of lives and those churches are growing fast. Here, that is happening in Catholic Churches. I know there are liberal Catholic clergy. Betting there is plenty of empty pew space in their churches.
My experience is that the churches that still believe and preach God's word result in conversion of lives and those churches are growing fast. Here, that is happening in Catholic Churches. I know there are liberal Catholic clergy. Betting there is plenty of empty pew space in their churches.
Oh, I think you get my point! If a person is kneeling and praying in front of anything, don't assume they are worshiping an object.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Note I said emphasise. Now if the Catholic church is growing then my question is how? Are they drawing from evangelical circles or New Converts who never had faith to begin with. And are they evangelizing from within? Why not the emphasis. How many times have you or people you know go to Mass an the whole liturgy kind of goes straight over your or their heads. Until the blessing of the Eucharist? How many people use Birth control and partake in the Eucharist without going to confession? How many two time a year Catholics become converted and become invovled? My experience is few. And yes you are right about liberal Clergy. Question. Why so many? In fact, I've been to mass so often as a young person that I can probably recite most of the liturgy right here. Sorry, I'm on my soap box. But thats how I currently see things. and at the end of Mass I can almost here a sigh of relief when the Priest says "the mass has ended. Go in Peace." and the People respond "Praise be to God". Almost like they are saying Thanks be to God its over! Anyway Dominus Vobiscum.
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. . . et cum Spiritu Tuo!
I hear your pain. I have experienced some of the same in some Catholic churches. I can also tell you I have set in a Baptist church where the pastor is well aware of un-married, co-habitating couples in which he gives communion.
Why so many liberal Catholics? Same reason their are so many liberal Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterians. Liberal seminaries. However, much weeding out has been taking place over the last few years in Catholic seminaries. Kinda like what happened within the SBC a few years back. Praise God!
I hear your pain. I have experienced some of the same in some Catholic churches. I can also tell you I have set in a Baptist church where the pastor is well aware of un-married, co-habitating couples in which he gives communion.
Why so many liberal Catholics? Same reason their are so many liberal Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterians. Liberal seminaries. However, much weeding out has been taking place over the last few years in Catholic seminaries. Kinda like what happened within the SBC a few years back. Praise God!
Also, my experience here has been that the evangelistic retreats are mostly attended by unchurched or retreads. Not that many of us former Baptist, but some.
I attended an evangelistic retreat as a result of a personal invitation by what I though were Jehovah's witnesses at my door!
I attended an evangelistic retreat as a result of a personal invitation by what I though were Jehovah's witnesses at my door!
However, kneeling before an icon of someone and praying to them IS worship. Expecting that icon to do something for us is worship. I don't expect my Bible to go to Jesus to pray for me nor do I expect the chair to do the same. So comparing kneeling in prayer at a chair with the Bible there to kneeling in front of a statue of Mary and praying to her is apples and oranges.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Ah but there is a big difference. For a baptist communion is more a community rememberance of what Jesus did for us. For the Catholic the Eucharist embodies the very presence of the Lord Jesus Christ. To partake of the Eucharist in taking into yourself in a very real way Jesus Christ. Not so for the baptist as Christ is considered already present in the Believer through the Holy Spirit. So its not so much an offense as it would be to the Catholic. Now to put them in leadership would be a different matter. And not to council them as participating at all is also another issue. I'm glad there is a weeding out. But not enough. Look at Notre Dame and the disobedience to the ACCB. How many voted to Obama. And the one preist who denied the Eucharist to an Obama supporter was disciplined. Why is that? However, I think there will be a real weeding among all Denominations soon.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
The cloud of witness could be the works they done before are witnesses to the faith. Right? Hebrews 11 is known as the "Hall of Faith". Listing all the people who've gone before and their works of Faith. So its not so much them personally as the testimony they give. Since we have such a testimony of faith
Thats another way to look at it.
St. Paul ran into this 'casual partaking' of the Eucharist in the Corrinthian Church, eh? He made it pretty clear that the bread we break and the cup we bless IS what Jesus said it is!
We got a local American Baptist pastor that doesn't believe in Hell! Many people don't until they get there.
We got a local American Baptist pastor that doesn't believe in Hell! Many people don't until they get there.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Hey my Alma Mater is an American Baptist University!!!! But you're right. And Paul was referring to people partying. Eating and Drinking like it was a big celebration. Forgetting the price paid. Remember in those days food was hard to come by. People would be attracted to an opportunity to eat. In fact being baptist things haven't changed that much :smilewinkgrin:
So what's the problem? Aren't those the people who need communion the most?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I can agree with that ... an unrepentant heart. Then the question is why aren't more Catholics, Orthodox, Copts, and Anglicans getting sick and dropping over dead?
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Good catch. Well, why not?
Some hermeneutics is necessary here. The verse is prefaced by "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.". The passage is referring to those who use communion to partake of gluttony and drunkenness, and leave no bread or wine for the faithful.
The passage isn't saying you gotta get your sinful ducks in a row before taking communion. That's a manmade requisite.