Did Christ died for all men or just some men?

[Jarthur001]

Well, James;
I think they are both sin, just one is sin unto death and the other is not, such as evil thoughts etc.

I have to tell you my personal story. I believed there was a God and before I died I would turn to Him but for a while longer I wanted to enjoy the pleasures of sin. That don't sound like Pelagius to me but could be I suppose, Didn't Augustine believe in "infant" baptism? I think I just loved darkness rather than light even though I knew both. Everytime I did wrong, I knew it. Something inside of me taught me so. I don't think I seen sin in a better light, it was just I didn't want to give it up yet. I thought for sure when I grew old, then I could repent. It didn't work out that way when I fell off a ladder with a massive heart attack. I appreciate your answers though for both ways know there is good. You and I talked before about "good" and that was God. I agree that good only comes from God.

Bob,

Thanks for sharing. If you are like me, you now wonder why you put it off so long. Sometimes God takes drastic measure in order to gain the love of His bride. I'm glad He loves us.


In Christ....James

 

[Brother Bob]

Merry Christmas..........

 

[Brother Bob]

James; another question?

Who was the book of James written to? It says the twelve tribes of Israel scattered abroad. Was James still working on the first commission given by Jesus to His Apostles, "go ye to the lost sheep of the house of Israel", telling them what it took to be a Christian? Or was it to the church and if so, what church? I think the book was written around 2 AD, could be wrong about the year, so it would not be no great thing, being the Jews were his brothers because he was a Jew also, for him to still be trying to get them to follow Christ.

 

[jne1611]

James; another question?

Who was the book of James written to? It says the twelve tribes of Israel scattered abroad. Was James still working on the first commission given by Jesus to His Apostles, "go ye to the lost sheep of the house of Israel", telling them what it took to be a Christian? Or was it to the church and if so, what church? I think the book was written around 2 AD, could be wrong about the year, so it would not be no great thing, being the Jews were his brothers because he was a Jew also, for him to still be trying to get them to follow Christ.

If I might ask. Where are you going with this question? It seems interesting.

 

[Brother Bob]

If I might ask. Where are you going with this question? It seems interesting.

I really need an answer and go from there. No one seems to be jumping right in though.

 

[jne1611]

I really need an answer and go from there. No one seems to be jumping right in though.

I am not sure my self. Have not studied it. Shed a little light on it. I know it is between you and James, but if no answer comes soon, at least let a little bit of what you are thinking out.

 

[Brother Bob]

I started a thread on it and everyone believes it means the remnant of Israel that accepted Christ. Its hard to believe they were all saved. It would be like me preaching repentance our church all the time instead of to the world. He said go ye into all the world and preach repent ye for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand but here is James preaching repentance and most say its to the church. There are many who differ but not many on here.

Missing Bible Tribes

A cryptic introduction is given by the apostle James in his epistle, which begins with the words:
"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." Who were these 'twelve tribes' scattered abroad? Biblical commentaries often plead ignorance as to who these mysterious people were. For example, the new Serendipity Bible For Study Groups (Zondervan, Inc.), makes this statement: "It is not clear to whom James is writing." (1)


​

To be honest, I don't know who these people are.

As you saw, James was speaking to the twelve tribes scattered abroad and that happened in 676 BC.

 

[Dogwood]

Hi MB,

I agree with you that Christ died for all men.

Your question below regarding the passages you referenced.

In these passages is the election of all men. Will any one show me scriptures of the particular election of just some men to Salvation?

No one can give you any passage of scripture supporting that God only chose certain individuals for salvation. Calvinists and Predestinarians or "whosoever" tries to push off Predestination on the rest of us will use scripture out of context each and every time.

Those who support Predestination lean on John Calvin's understanding and ignore the bible when it states that no one knows the mind of God.

There are too many holes in the Predestination theory to ever be taught as doctrine. The bible contradicts the notion with many words and passages, the most prominant word in the bible to give serious pause is "WHOSOEVER."

Ponder the simple question "Does God want us to live outside of His Will?" Humm...Of course not; but we do, because we all fall short of the Glory of God, and none of us are righteous. Are the "unsaved" living outside of God's will? Certainly, it is God's will that none should perish.

God will chastise His children for sin to get us back into His will. Those who never accept the gift of salvation will suffer God's wrath through eternal punishment.

So there you go. God always provides and all anyone has to do is accept the gift of salvation by His grace through faith in his Son for eternal salvation and from eternal condemnation. That simple.....

Luke 2:11
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Merry Christmas,

Dogwood

 

[John I Morris]

Well, without a doubt, he is writing to the Jewish Christians scattered around the world at that time. It is a no brainer that Christ died for the world, all men, as Scripture tells us that He (Christ) died for the sin of the world.
But, just because He died for them all does not mean that they all will be saved. God is long suffering not willing that any should perish. But man on the other hand, loves darkness rather than light. So, God knows everyone that will be saved and He knows the ones that will not be saved.
It is all clear to me. What about you?
:godisgood:

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, without a doubt, he is writing to the Jewish Christians scattered around the world at that time. It is a no brainer that Christ died for the world, all men, as Scripture tells us that He (Christ) died for the sin of the world.
But, just because He died for them all does not mean that they all will be saved. God is long suffering not willing that any should perish. But man on the other hand, loves darkness rather than light. So, God knows everyone that will be saved and He knows the ones that will not be saved.
It is all clear to me. What about you?

Glad to see you are so more advanced than all the scholars who went before you. You say its to the Jews and the Bible says its to the Twelve Tribes which Judah is only one of them. So, I guess its more than a "no brainer" after all.

 

[jne1611]

Glad to see you are so more advanced than all the scholars who went before you. You say its to the Jews and the Bible says its to the Twelve Tribes which Judah is only one of them. So, I guess its more than a "no brainer" after all.

I think some study has to go into it as well. It's easy to pop off an answer, but, that does not make it the right one.

 

[Brother Bob]

It seems to have turned out to be a good thread that has required a lot of thought for most of the brethren. I noticed right away that most of the brethren were very careful in their answers to this one. I think it has stirred up the "pure" mind myself.

 

[jne1611]

It seems to have turned out to be a good thread that has required a lot of thought for most of the brethren. I noticed right away that most of the brethren were very careful in their answers to this one. I think it has stirred up the "pure" mind myself.

I have found that prudence many times means "slow to speak & swift to hear" Hard for the flesh, but good for the spirit.

 

[av1611jim]

Glad to see you are so more advanced than all the scholars who went before you. You say its to the Jews and the Bible says its to the Twelve Tribes which Judah is only one of them. So, I guess its more than a "no brainer" after all.

No...he did NOT say it was to the Jews. He said it was to the Jewish (nationality) CHRISTIANS!

And FYI: All of Israel was called "Jews" since the return of the Babylonian captivity. So again, your "no brainer" requires a bit more than what you are willing or able to give. Right?

Perhaps a historical study would be in order b4 you quip such nonsense as what you did, ok bro?

 

[John I Morris]

Bob, I hope that I didnt offend your sensibilities. When a book says who it is written to, I just do not need to think it isnt written to them. I try and keep it simple, Bible says it, thats settles it. I didnt mean to speak to quickly. I'll do better next time.
The twelve tribes made up the Jewish nation, the one that trusted Christ made them Christian, so Jewish Christians seems reasonible to say.
:thumbsup:

 

[DHK]

The twelve tribes made up the Jewish nation, the one that trusted Christ made them Christian, so Jewish Christians seems reasonible to say.
:thumbsup:

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

There are no "Jewish Christians." Paul delineates three groups of people in the Bible: the Jews, the Gentiles, and the church (believers).
There is no such thing as a pagan Christian, and there is no such thing as a Jewish Christian. Either you are a Christian or you are not. The background or the ethnicity is irrelevant. Shall we say: "I am a white Christian," a black Christian" or an Irish Christian," a "German Christian." No, we are all one in Christ. We are believers, Christians--one in Christ.
The others are either Gentiles or Jews. Those are the only two groups. James was addressing Christians (brethren) as he addresses them in every chapter of his epistle. They were believers in Christ who had a Jewish background just as many of you may have an Irish background, or some other similar background. That is irrelevant to the book of James. The message is applicable to all.

 

[Rippon]

Some things that Dogwood said earlier were so wrong that I have to comment . Those who support predestination are being biblical . The Bible teaches the doctrine . Even if one has error-filled ideas on the subject (as many here ) they would indeed affirm that predestination is taught in the Scripture . Calvinists don't rely on John Calvin's understanding of the teaching ( though they should refer to him for godly reference on the subject . ) Jesus and the apostles taught it and many throughout Church history before Calvin was born . Of course no one knows the mind of God exhaustively . But the Bible is here for us to examine its teachings on everything it discloses .

In Deuteronomy 29:29 it says : The Lord our God has secrets known to no one . We are not accountable for them , but we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us , so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions . ( NLT2)

Calvin often urged Christians not to go beyond what was written .

If you think there are too many holes in the "predestination theory" well , I am one who holds to the Holy truth of predestination --- and I believe in it wholly .

 

[Rippon]

Brother Bob , where does it say that the Spirit is striving with all people to believe ? He has forebearance and great patience even with vessels made for ( fitted for ) destruction . However , I do not see where you get the idea that God is striving with all to believe . Most people in the history of the world have not even heard the good news . It was His will that they not hear .

 

[Rippon]

Some here are under the mistaken impression that because one is not able under his own power to turn to God -- that that person should not be punished by God eternally . That's the old Pelagian argument which says that inability limits obligation . Charles Finney was a modern day "preacher " who taught that . But divine commands are still valid even though no one has the ability in and of himself to turn to God . The Lord's commands including "Repent and Believe ! " are in effect with full authority and no exceptions . It does not matter at all what people are able to do -- it's what they ought to do . All people are under this . Because someone is impotent to obey does not negate the divine imperative . The Bible does not say anywhere between its covers that spiritual helplessness gets someone off the hook against God's claims on them .

 

[Allan]

Some things that Dogwood said earlier were so wrong that I have to comment . Those who support predestination are being biblical . The Bible teaches the doctrine . Even if one has error-filled ideas on the subject (as many here ) they would indeed affirm that predestination is taught in the Scripture . Calvinists don't rely on John Calvin's understanding of the teaching ( though they should refer to him for godly reference on the subject . ) Jesus and the apostles taught it and many throughout Church history before Calvin was born . Of course no one knows the mind of God exhaustively . But the Bible is here for us to examine its teachings on everything it discloses .

In Deuteronomy 29:29 it says : The Lord our God has secrets known to no one . We are not accountable for them , but we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us , so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions . ( NLT2)

Calvin often urged Christians not to go beyond what was written .

If you think there are too many holes in the "predestination theory" well , I am one who holds to the Holy truth of predestination --- and I believe in it wholly .

Predestination is biblical, I agree. I just don't agree with veiw point of Calvinistic predestination. Since Scripture is most silent on how and when 'specifically' this occured; our construct or placement therein and what it entails is made mostly from a philosophical and or logical construct.

Though Calvin might have urged Christians not to go beyond what was written, Calvin himself did many times and again is one of the reasons his views changed 'somewhat' later in life.

What is most funny is that you ASSUME your view Holier and more truthful when in fact it is mostly presuppostion, postulation, and assumptions when dealing with the beginning but specifically the order in which God did it. The ONLY order we know in the scriptures about what God did in the beginning is "... those whom He foreknew, THEM He did predestinate. So believe how ever you want with regard to the mechanics of these immutable Truths and do so Wholy BUT do not assume your VIEW of those mechanics are the most biblical as we find little to no scripture proving or establishing that particular Calvinistic doctrine.