Do people which commit suicide automatically go to hell?

[standingfirminChrist]

Are you pulling that trigger because of hatred for another individual? or because of fear and self-defense?

Is there another way to deal with the situation other than using a fatal method?

When one is faced by an enemy, when one is being threatened, human nature will defend itself. But this is chasing rabbit trails. Killing another person can be forgiven, because the one who murdered can ask forgiveness. But suicide cannot.

 

[Claudia_T]

What is murder? Is it the same as killing? If an intruder comes in my house and threatens my family with a weapon and I shoot him, is that murder? Is it murder when a soldier kills the enemy? Is it murder when I squash that black widow spider hiding under a rock?
Murder is an evil that begins in the heart as hatred. Remember what Jesus said..
"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies."

well then you'd have to get into that Kevorkian stuff like mercy killing.

You have your "nice" murder and then you have your "mean" murder.

 

[Claudia_T]

No wait! It would be your "nice killing" and your "mean murder"

 

[Amy.G]

Are you pulling that trigger because of hatred for another individual? or because of fear and self-defense?
Is there another way to deal with the situation other than using a fatal method?

When one is faced by an enemy, when one is being threatened, human nature will defend itself. But this is chasing rabbit trails. Killing another person can be forgiven, because the one who murdered can ask forgiveness. But suicide cannot.

This is one of points I'm trying to make. Motive. What is in the heart? What drives a murderer and what drives a suicidal person are two different things. Two different motives. The suicidal person IS responding to fear and in a way self defense. They see no other way out of THEIR pain. People who takes their own lives DO NOT have a sound mind. I believe our God knows the difference and because of His mercy takes this into account.

 

[Helen]

I know we die once and are judged. But there is nothing in the Bible I am aware of which says that when I am finally with the Lord I will not humbly bow and ask forgiveness for all the sins I did not even know I was commiting at the time. I am quite sure I have been unintentionally disobedient to Him everyday in some way or another. I don't want to be, and so I am VERY glad He judges the heart, but I know myself too well to think I only sin when I think about it first!

And if it is possible for me to approach my Lord this way after death, why would it not be possible for someone in a state of despair or confusion who kills himself not to do the same if he was one of His children?

I went over the first two paragraphs with Barry just now and he brought up something I was not aware of. The Hebrew people considered suicide to be more honorable than allowing the enemy to kill you and also preferable to allowing your body to be desecrated by the enemy as in capture, rape, torture. This was why often the husband would kill his wife before killing himself, to save her from that.

If there had been ANYTHING in their theology or the Law which spoke against this, they never would have done it or believed in doing it.

Just a couple of added thoughts here...

 

[standingfirminChrist]

There is something in their law...

Thou shalt not kill.

Where in the Bible does it say a husband killed his wife to keep her from being desecrated? Or that he was supposed to kill her to prevent it?

 

[Helen]

There is something in their law...

Thou shalt not kill.

Where in the Bible does it say a husband killed his wife to keep her from being desecrated? Or that he was supposed to kill her to prevent it?

Unless you want to say God contradicts Himself in the Bible, as He commanded a lot of killing when they entered the Promised Land as well as punishment for murder, the correct translation of the commandment is "Thou shalt not murder."

If they had thought the commandment was simply not to kill, they would have not killed all the men, women, and children in invading Canaan; they would have refused to kill in response to murder. They understood exactly what the commandment was and it is elaborated on in the rest of the Law. You cannot back up to that one, Standing. It does not mean what you want it to mean unless you are going to call God a liar.

I did not say, nor did Barry, that it is in the Bible for a man to kill his wife and then himself when faced with capture. I said this was something that they did, which they would not have even considered had they thought it was against God's Holy Law.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

God commanded them to kill those who He knew were not His own, who were living abominable and detestable sins. That is different.

Also, you said a man killed his wife to keep her from being desecrated. You must have something to back that statement up. If it is not in the Bible, I cannot accept it as being accepted of God.

Suicide is murder regardless of how one tries to explain it as being otherwise. God's Word clearly states that all murderers will have their part in the lake of fire. There is no getting around that.

 

[Claudia_T]

If the fact that God commanded alot of killing means I can go out and kill myself, then why not just go kill my next door neighbor while Im at it?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Why not just go kill the ones who are drunks as they are coming out of the liquor stores and beer joints. After all, no drunkard has eternal life either.

No, the fact is, we are to show love to those in sin and let them see Christ in us. I can just see a lost person at a funeral of a suicide saying, 'He really was a Christian, He had Christ in Him when He pulled the trigger and off'd himself. I want to be that type of Christian'.

What kind of picture does that paint of the one who trust's in the Lord and His Word that He will make a way of escape? Suicide is not the way provided by God, but by the devil himself; for he was a murderer from the beginning. He is a false shepherd offering a false hope.

Hershell Pell, of the Pell Brothers tried to commit suicide himself years ago, but failed. His testimony? He heard the gun talking to him, telling him that it could end his miseries. He put the gun to his head and pulled the trigger, but it misfired. It was then that He knew that is an evil voice that causes one to commit suicide, not the Shepherd of our souls. And if Christ is the Shepherd of your soul, you will not be ignorant of satan's devices. You will know that suicide is rejection of the Son of God.

 

[Shiloh]

Standing, I think you are totally disregarding the Mercy and Grace of the Lord Jesus. You would of had a hard time convincing Paul of your theory. Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In all due respect to you brother I think you have been reading too long of the twisted doctrine of atonement of the Redheaded SDA. I am a BAPTIST. I believe in the ETERNAL SECURITY of the believer. I believe Paul when he wrote that NOTHING can separate us from Christ. No brother NOTHING not even taking ones own life. In order for you to push this false theory you have to read into Gods Word things IT doesn't say. Like our sins are ultimately placed on the devil and then he is cast out .....out.... there...somewhere....not hell because according to the red head there is no such place.

 

[Claudia_T]

Shiloh,

You really have a problem with me, dont you? You seem obsessed with me for some reason...


and Im a blonde, not a redhead

cant you talk without trying to insult people?

**with emphasis on the words "trying to"

 

[Claudia_T]

besides that I dont know where you got the idea that I believe there is no hell....

..and standingfirminChrist has nothing to do with whatever I believe about the Atonement so that was a really ridiculous thing for you to say.

You could at least have enough grace not to do this on everybody else's threads, you know? please?

Its ok for you to act like this towards me, I dont care, but you dont need to start using me to do it to innocent bystanders like standingfirminChrist now as well.


You all will have to please excuse this person ... he/she started all this on the "Question to our SDA friend" and the "More Seventh-Day Adventists" threads and cant seem to stop.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

In all due respect to you brother I think you have been reading too long of the twisted doctrine of atonement of the Redheaded SDA.

In all due respect to you Brother, I have not been reading the doctrine of the SDA. I do not believe in annihilation as the SDA's do. I believe in eternal punishment and torment in the lake of fire, not just a brief time and then nothingness. I get my doctrine, as I have said many times over in many threads, straight from the Word of God, not a man-made doctrine.

Just because Claudia and I see eye to eye on the suicide issue does not make me SDA, nor does that imply that I read the SDA doctrines.

I am a BAPTIST.

That is great, I am too.

I believe in the ETERNAL SECURITY of the believer.

As do I.

I believe Paul when he wrote that NOTHING can separate us from Christ.

As do I

No brother NOTHING not even taking ones own life.

A true believer will not take his or her own life, for the life is not their own, it is God's. 'Ye are not your own, for ye are bought with a price.' How can one reject Christ by committing suicide and expect to hear the words, 'Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Enter into the joys of the Lord'?

In order for you to push this false theory you have to read into Gods Word things IT doesn't say. Like our sins are ultimately placed on the devil and then he is cast out .....out.... there...somewhere....not hell because according to the red head there is no such place.

Not false theories at all, since I have given Scripture upon Scripture to prove the reality of murderers being doomed for the lake of fire.

 

[Shiloh]

A true believer will not take his or her own life, for the life is not their own, it is God's. 'Ye are not your own, for ye are bought with a price.' How can one reject Christ by committing suicide and expect to hear the words, 'Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Enter into the joys of the Lord'?
I know who we as Christians belong to, ICor.6:19,20. I never said a person who dies with unconfessed sin in their life will hear the words, well done thou good and faithful servant. However what do you do with Rev.7:17 and 21:4. I believe the Word teaches us to as the old folks used to say "keep a short account" meaning if you sin confess it as soon as you can. Do believe the believer still has an "old nature?" If you take your theory far enough about the "sheep hearing the voice of the shepherd" you would have to say a Christian never sins. If a "sheep" listens to the voice of the "shepherd" about suicide wouldn't they hear the voice about any other sin? You would have to say you never sin. Is that so?

 

[Amy.G]

SFIC, you have still not dealt with the issue of the unstable mind of the suicidal person. Their mind is SICK. It is not just a simple issue of murder as you would like to have it. That's why I say that you are doing what is God's alone to do by judging the heart of another person. You do not have that right. By your own standards if you die while you are judging another, you will die in your sin and go to hell, because judging another is sin. I believe the Bible makes it clear why people go to hell. It is because they rejected the Savior.
Suicide is sin. I will not deny that. But, so is adultry, lying, stealing, not honoring our parents. Can a Christian commit these sins? If so, and they die while committing one, will they go to hell? This is works based salvation, pure and simple.

 

[Claudia_T]

SFIC, you have still not dealt with the issue of the unstable mind of the suicidal person. Their mind is SICK. It is not just a simple issue of murder as you would like to have it. That's why I say that you are doing what is God's alone to do by judging the heart of another person. You do not have that right. By your own standards if you die while you are judging another, you will die in your sin and go to hell, because judging another is sin. I believe the Bible makes it clear why people go to hell. It is because they rejected the Savior.
Suicide is sin. I will not deny that. But, so is adultry, lying, stealing, not honoring our parents. Can a Christian commit these sins? If so, and they die while committing one, will they go to hell? This is works based salvation, pure and simple.

amy,

then tell us what it means in Revelation when it says murderers go to hell?

are you saying there are Christian murderers? or do you have to kill more than one person or what?

 

[xdisciplex]

I do not think murder and killing are the same.
A soldier in war who shoots an enemy soldier kills the enemy soldier.
A solider in war who shoots a prisoner without any reason murders.

A man who is attacked by a stranger and gets into a fight and then kills this stranger killed.

A man who wants money and stabs another person from the back for a few dollars is a murderer.

There is a clear difference between killing and murdering.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

SFIC, you have still not dealt with the issue of the unstable mind of the suicidal person. Their mind is SICK. It is not just a simple issue of murder as you would like to have it. That's why I say that you are doing what is God's alone to do by judging the heart of another person. You do not have that right. By your own standards if you die while you are judging another, you will die in your sin and go to hell, because judging another is sin. I believe the Bible makes it clear why people go to hell. It is because they rejected the Savior.
Suicide is sin. I will not deny that. But, so is adultry, lying, stealing, not honoring our parents. Can a Christian commit these sins? If so, and they die while committing one, will they go to hell? This is works based salvation, pure and simple.

What makes you think we cannot judge? Jesus Himself said we can know the tree by its fruits... and that we are to judge righteous judgments.

Since suicide is sin, as you admitted, and clearly all murderers will have their part in the lake of fire, as God's Word states... then it only is conclusive that one who commits suicide clearly has not eternal life abiding in Him and will spend eternity in the lake of fire.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I do not think murder and killing are the same.
A soldier in war who shoots an enemy soldier kills the enemy soldier.
A solider in war who shoots a prisoner without any reason murders.

A man who is attacked by a stranger and gets into a fight and then kills this stranger killed.

A man who wants money and stabs another person from the back for a few dollars is a murderer.

There is a clear difference between killing and murdering.

Murder and kill are synomynous, xdx. If you murder someone, you have killed them. Life is ended for that one who is killed.

In 1 Samuel 24:11, we see the word 'killed' as the Hebrew word 'harag' which means to murder, to smite someone with deadly intent.' It is clear by the Word of God that the two words are synomynous in meaning. Man just tries to change the meaning to candy coat one or the other to seem less of a sin.

Whether you want to call it murder, or try to justify it by saying you killed and did not murder does not negate the fact that they are one and the same. When you kill, you transgress the law, which is sin.