Does the Bible teach Original Sin?

[Marooncat79]

There are many which fall in that slippery slope

 

[Iconoclast]

1689 cof
Chapter 6: Of the Fall of Man, Of Sin, And of the Punishment Thereof
1._____ Although God created man upright and perfect, and gave him a righteous law, which had been unto life had he kept it, and threatened death upon the breach thereof, yet he did not long abide in this honour; Satan using the subtlety of the serpent to subdue Eve, then by her seducing Adam, who, without any compulsion, did willfully transgress the law of their creation, and the command given unto them, in eating the forbidden fruit, which God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory.
( Genesis 2:16, 17; Genesis 3:12,13; 2 Corinthians 11:3 )
2._____ Our first parents, by this sin, fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and we in them whereby death came upon all: all becoming dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body.
( Romans 3:23; Romans 5:12, etc; Titus 1:15; Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-19 )

3._____ They being the root, and by God's appointment, standing in the room and stead of all mankind, the guilt of the sin was imputed, and corrupted nature conveyed, to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation, being now conceived in sin, and by nature children of wrath, the servants of sin, the subjects of death, and all other miseries, spiritual, temporal, and eternal, unless the Lord Jesus set them free.
( Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22, 45, 49; Psalms 51:5; Job 14:4; Ephesians 2:3; Romans 6:20 Romans 5:12; Hebrews 2:14, 15; 1 Thessalonians 1:10 )

4._____ From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions.
( Romans 8:7; Colossians 1:21; James 1:14, 15; Matthew 15:19 )

5._____ The corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated; and although it be through Christ pardoned and mortified, yet both itself, and the first motions thereof, are truly and properly sin.
( Romans 7:18,23; Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8; Romans 7:23-25; Galatians 5:17 )

 

[Iconoclast]

Rom3;23
23 for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God --

All sinned at one point in time...The Fall....case closed

 

[Iconoclast]

Here it is once again, for all who do not take theology from Finney;
preceptaustin;

To sin is to act contrary to the will and law of God. Everybody is born into Adam and thus all sinned for when he sinned, for he acted as the representative for all his descendants. Men are not only sinners by nature, but are also sinners by practice and thus continually fall short (see below), in committing sin themselves. Thus there is a universal need for the gospel, which is thankfully mercifully universally available!

The aorist tense here is referred to as "timeless aorist" which gathers up the whole human race for all time into this condemnation (see also A T Robertson). There are no exceptions save Christ Jesus as Paul has made clear in the preceding indictment in (Ro 1:18-3:20)

Godet agrees writing that the aorist tense "transports us to the point of time when the result of human life appears as a completed fact, the hour of judgment."

MacDonald writes that the aorist tense pictures the fact that "Everybody sinned in Adam; when he sinned, he acted as the representative for all his descendants. But men are not only sinners by nature; they are also sinners by practice.

Leon Morris - The aorist pictures this as past, but also as a completion. It certainly does not mean that sin belongs wholly in the past, for Paul goes on to a present tense when he says fall short of the glory of God. Elsewhere in Romans the glory is often future (Ro 2:7, 10; 5:2; 8:18, 21). But there is also a present glory, for God “made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ” (2 Cor. 4:6; cf. 2 Cor. 3:18; John 17:22). But this is something Christ produces in believers. Sinners fall short of it. Not only did all sin in the past, but they continually come short of God’s glory. (Ibid)

Vincent writes that the aorist tense means "looking back to a thing definitely past — the historic occurrence of sin."

Remember that men and women sin because we are sinners by nature. A plum tree bears plums because it is a plum tree. The fruit is the result of its nature. Sin is the fruit of a sinful heart. “The heart is deceitful above all things” (Jer 17:9).

 

[Humble Disciple]

There are many which fall in that slippery slope

Which slippery slope? That slippery slope of the Anabaptists, our historical forefathers?

Anabaptists stubbornly held to Ezekiel 18:4 which explicitly states that “…it is only the person who sins who shall die.” Robert Friedman states that “The Ezekiel reference…freed the movement from the fatalistic character of inherited sin which was so characteristic of the Catholic Church and Protestant orthodoxy” (100). Anabaptists held that “…the sin of Adam and Eve introduced into the world a powerful tendency or inclination to sin which resulted in universal sinfulness, but it was a sinfulness by choice rather than by nature…The consequence of the sin in Eden was moral, not ontological, that is, inherited in human nature” (100). https://www.mysteinbach.ca/blogs/7170/original-sin-leaving-it-behind-lv/

It's kind of strange when Baptists, who reject the Catholic doctrine of baptismal regeneration, insist upon the Catholic doctrine of original sin on which it hinges.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Why do modern-day Calvinists insist on breaking the the ninth commandment for any preacher or theologian who disagrees with their theology, by falsely accusing them of Pelagianism?

 

[Iconoclast]

Why do modern-day Calvinists insist on breaking the the ninth commandment for any preacher or theologian who disagrees with their theology, by falsely accusing them of Pelagianism?

Modern day Calvinists spot someone with an agenda-
John Calvin: Not a Calvinist

Molinism: The Bridge Between Calvinism & Arminianism

Free Will is Taught in the Bible...

Jeremiah 18: Romans 9 De-Calvinized

A person does not just randomly do this. You had a plan and we have caught on to it.
Error and truth have no middle ground.

 

[Humble Disciple]

You had a plan and we have caught on to it.

Nope. I've had no plan, from the beginning, other than being a good Berean and going wherever the scriptures lead. As I posted to this forum weeks ago, I prayed for God to reveal to me whether or not Calvinism is true, and reading Jeremiah 18 answered that prayer.

I have asked God to not make me a Calvinist if he doesn't want me to be a Calvinist. In the very least, I believe that God wants me to dispel myths about Calvinism, so that people will be relieved of their prejudice against Calvinists.

Since I am a Calvinist who believes in God’s irresistible grace, I accept that God will make me a provisionist, Arminian, or Molinist if He so chooses, according to His own glory and purposes. (Psalm 115:3, Psalm 135:6)

At the end of the day, your love for God is more important than the rightness of your theology:

1 Corinthians 8:2-3
Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.
Southern Baptist Traditionalism/Provisionism Thoughts and Comments

How can you blame me, as a Calvinist, for something God decreed?

Anabaptists stubbornly held to Ezekiel 18:4 which explicitly states that “…it is only the person who sins who shall die.” Robert Friedman states that “The Ezekiel reference…freed the movement from the fatalistic character of inherited sin which was so characteristic of the Catholic Church and Protestant orthodoxy” (100). Anabaptists held that “…the sin of Adam and Eve introduced into the world a powerful tendency or inclination to sin which resulted in universal sinfulness, but it was a sinfulness by choice rather than by nature…The consequence of the sin in Eden was moral, not ontological, that is, inherited in human nature” (100).
https://www.mysteinbach.ca/blogs/7170/original-sin-leaving-it-behind-lv/

It's kind of strange when Baptists, who reject the Catholic doctrine of baptismal regeneration, insist upon the Catholic doctrine of original sin on which it hinges.

 

[Humble Disciple]

So when children willing sin, do what they want, not accountable to God?
When babies act and are selfish, not accountable to God?

Baptists, like in Judaism, traditionally teach that people aren't responsible for their sins until they reach the age of accountability, which in Judaism is the age of twelve.

The term “the age of accountability” is a term that we Christians use to describe the point in a person's life when they become accountable to God for either accepting or rejecting Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. This is normally around the age of 12.

In Romans, chapter 7, verses 9–11, the apostle Paul said,

9 For I was alive without the Law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Paul said that there was a time in his life that he was alive, but when the commandment came, sin revived, took occasion by the commandment, and killed him. This could only be talking about spiritual death...

When God creates a person, they are spiritually alive. They do not have a sin nature on the inside of them. How could they? They have just been created by God. God doesn't create sin or sinful people. Everything that God creates is pure. The idea of man being born with “original sin” or a “sin nature” is not Biblical.
What is “the Age of Accountability?”

According to the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which was based on the Calvinist Westminster Confession, babies go to hell that are not God's elect:

Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )
1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith | The Reformed Reader

This is a horrific teaching, and contrary to what Baptists have traditionally taught.

 

[Humble Disciple]

If original sin is true, as in inherited guilt rather than an inherited inclination toward sin, then unborn babies go to hell, which is contrary to what Baptists have traditionally taught.

This is why the Catholic church practices infant baptism and formulated the unbiblical doctrine of limbo.

Anabaptists stubbornly held to Ezekiel 18:4 which explicitly states that “…it is only the person who sins who shall die.” Robert Friedman states that “The Ezekiel reference…freed the movement from the fatalistic character of inherited sin which was so characteristic of the Catholic Church and Protestant orthodoxy” (100). Anabaptists held that “…the sin of Adam and Eve introduced into the world a powerful tendency or inclination to sin which resulted in universal sinfulness, but it was a sinfulness by choice rather than by nature…The consequence of the sin in Eden was moral, not ontological, that is, inherited in human nature” (100).
Original Sin – Leaving it Behind (lV)

 

[1689Dave]

Eastern Orthodox Christians and Jews have always maintained that, while we inherited the inclination toward sin from Adam, we did not inherit the guilt of Adam's sin, which would go against the plain meaning of scripture.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father; neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

While death and sin entered the world through Adam's sin, Adam was not created as naturally immortal. If Adam had never sinned, he would still have needed to continue eating from the tree of life to live forever.

Augustine's doctrine on original sin may have had more to do with his prior Manichaeism than with what scripture and the previous church fathers actually taught.

While we indeed need God's grace to avoid sin and receive the forgiveness of sin, that doesn't mean we inherited the guilt of Adam's sin.

The Anabaptists, who were the forerunners of the Baptist movement, taught that we inherited the inclination toward sin from Adam, but not Adam's guilt:



Neither has Judaism ever taught the Augustinian doctrine:




Eastern Orthodox Christians have never taught the Augustian doctrine of original sin, and many Eastern Orthodox Christians don't regard Augustine as a saint because of it. They instead refer to him as "Blessed Augustine," but not Saint Augustine.



It's kind of strange when Baptists, who reject the Catholic doctrine of baptismal regeneration, insist upon the Catholic doctrine of original sin on which it hinges.

Original Sin means you cannot go one day without thinking, imagining, or acting out sin. If your will is free, stop doing these things.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Original Sin means you cannot go one day without thinking, imagining, or acting out sin.

No, that's what Eastern Orthodoxy calls "ancestral sin" and what Judaism calls "yetzer hara," our inclination toward sin inherited from Adam. Original sin, on the other hand, is the teaching that we inherited Adam's guilt.

According to the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which was based on the Calvinist Westminster Confession, babies go to hell that are not God's elect:

Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )
1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith | The Reformed Reader

This is against what Baptists have traditionally taught:

The term “the age of accountability” is a term that we Christians use to describe the point in a person's life when they become accountable to God for either accepting or rejecting Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. This is normally around the age of 12.

In Romans, chapter 7, verses 9–11, the apostle Paul said,

9 For I was alive without the Law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Paul said that there was a time in his life that he was alive, but when the commandment came, sin revived, took occasion by the commandment, and killed him. This could only be talking about spiritual death...

When God creates a person, they are spiritually alive. They do not have a sin nature on the inside of them. How could they? They have just been created by God. God doesn't create sin or sinful people. Everything that God creates is pure. The idea of man being born with “original sin” or a “sin nature” is not Biblical.
What is “the Age of Accountability?”

Anabaptists stubbornly held to Ezekiel 18:4 which explicitly states that “…it is only the person who sins who shall die.” Robert Friedman states that “The Ezekiel reference…freed the movement from the fatalistic character of inherited sin which was so characteristic of the Catholic Church and Protestant orthodoxy” (100). Anabaptists held that “…the sin of Adam and Eve introduced into the world a powerful tendency or inclination to sin which resulted in universal sinfulness, but it was a sinfulness by choice rather than by nature…The consequence of the sin in Eden was moral, not ontological, that is, inherited in human nature” (100).
https://www.mysteinbach.ca/blogs/7170/original-sin-leaving-it-behind-lv/

 

[1689Dave]

No, that's what Eastern Orthodoxy calls "ancestral sin" and what Judaism calls "yetzer hara," our inclination toward sin inherited from Adam. Original sin, on the other hand, is the teaching that we inherited Adam's guilt.

According to the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which was based on the Calvinist Westminster Confession, babies go to hell that are not God's elect:



This is against what Baptists have traditionally taught:

The Bible depicts it as original sin. The reason babies die in the womb etc.

 

[MB]

So when children willing sin, do what they want, not accountable to God?
When babies act and are selfish, not accountable to God?

There is no transgression where there is no Law. Babies would not understand the Law if they had it. They can't read or understand language. Do you really think God would punish anyone who can't help them selves.. If so maybe you need to see a head doctor.
MB

 

[Humble Disciple]

There is no transgression where there is no Law. Babies would not understand the Law if they had it. They can't read or understand language. Do you really think God would punish anyone who can't help them selves.. If so maybe you need to see a head doctor.
MB

According to the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which was based on the Calvinist Westminster Confession, babies go to hell that are not God's elect:

Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )
1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith | The Reformed Reader

Since the Biblical God is a God of justice, this is why Calvinism can't be true, even though we should be tolerant of our fellow Calvinists as our brothers in Christ.

 

[MB]

A denial of biblical truth once again.

Prove your theory of my being responsible for Adam's sin. Prove it with scripture. If you could you would have already done so Original sin is not biblical. It is a concept conceived by some Catholic priest a long time ago and it is a lie.
MB

 

[Humble Disciple]

...Original sin is not biblical. It is a concept conceived by some Catholic priest a long time ago and it is a lie.
MB

That's exactly what I already said in the OP. That Catholic priest's name was Augustine.

 

[MB]

According to the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which was based on the Calvinist Westminster Confession, babies go to hell that are not God's elect:

Election is not Salvation and there is not even one Gentile in scripture that was elect by God.. Election for Gentiles is an attempt to replace the Jew. No where is a Gentile ever elected in scripture. It is a figment of there imagination just like the rest of there deception



Since the Biblical God is a God of justice, this is why Calvinism can't be true, even though we should be tolerant of our fellow Calvinists as our brothers in Christ.[/QUOTE]
I grant them the same tolerance they give me. Some times the truth hurts.
MB

 

[MB]

That's exactly what I already said in the OP. That Catholic priest's name was Augustine.

True I am aware of who wrote it. Calvin promoted it while seeking to become the Pope of Geneva. I've read some of the history of Calvin.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Baptists, like in Judaism, traditionally teach that people aren't responsible for their sins until they reach the age of accountability, which in Judaism is the age of twelve.



According to the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which was based on the Calvinist Westminster Confession, babies go to hell that are not God's elect:



This is a horrific teaching, and contrary to what Baptists have traditionally taught.

they are still sinners, its just that the Lord has not yet made a final judgement against them! Babies are not born in a state of innocence, as still born into Adam and still sinners!