Last edited by a moderator:
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Drinking
- Thread starter Brian30755
- Start date
- Status
I see your point. Thanks for the verse.
"Wine or other fermented drink" this shows that wine is considered a fermented drink.
Do you really have trouble understanding that?
Leviticus 10:9 “You and your sons are not to drink wine or other fermented drink whenever you go into the Tent of Meeting, or you will die. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come.
Numbers 6:3 he must abstain from wine and other fermented drink and must not drink vinegar made from wine or from other fermented drink. He must not drink grape juice or eat grapes or raisins.
Deuteronomy 14:26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice.
The only thing you have shown is that the context allows that meaning in those verses. The context must always determine the meaning of the word.
No, the Scriptures don't show that. Only some of them show that. Wine is like our word "cider." When I go to coffee shop, like Starbucks or Second Cup, they sometimes sell Apple Cider. It is good hot apple-juice type drink with a slightly different taste. I once passed by a kiosk in Germany where they were selling cider. I thought of buying a glass until I realized how potent it might be. They were all alcoholic beverages. So, cider can be either alcoholic or non-alcoholic. Wine is the same way. Let's not be ignorant about this. Both Hebrew and Greek words are the same. They allow for either meaning--alcoholic or non-alcoholic; fermented or non-fermented.
Now go to the case of the Wedding at Cana, and the miracle Jesus performed there. To lay the setting let me give you some historical information about wine in the first century.
http://www.travelnet.co.il/israel/Wine.htm#TITLE4
Remember Jesus saved the best wine until the last. He was commended by the governor of the feast. What he made was perfect, and you can see why. He made what came straight from the vine--new wine--grape juice. And its taste was perfect. Jesus does not do anything imperfectly.
Secondly, "Give no offense to anyone." Would Jesus give an alcoholic beverage to an recovering drunk? No. It was grape juice. He, being God, knowing all things, would not allow such a thing to happen. He would not put himself in the place of sin.
Third,
Habakkuk 2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
Jesus would be giving all of this "wine" to his neighbors. The consequences of doing so would be putting him in a sinful position.
There are many other reasons why Jesus could have never made an alcoholic beverage here. But this should suffice. To adamantly maintain that it was an alcoholic beverage goes against all common sense.
Last edited by a moderator:
It is plain and clear. The scriptures do show that wine is a fermented drink.
Just because America calls their apple juice ‘cider’ does not mean it is a good example to say wine is non-alcoholic.
New wine is new wine. New wine does not mean there is no alcohol. New wine means that it is new. Old wine is old wine. New wine does not mean grape juice.
Do not try to use your wisdom to explain God’s wisdom.
The scripture you explained incorrectly says do not get someone drunk so you can look upon their nakedness.
What you have explained about how and why Jesus would not make wine shows no understanding.
You seem to forget that God says we can drink wine.
Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
I do not like it when people try to convince others that one must know Hebrew or Greek to understand God’s Word.
Since you so boldly use the word oinos to try to prove what is not there, then tell me, if oinos means non-alcoholic wine, then why does the word for drunkenness have the word oinos in it?
oinophlugia means drunkeness
How does it make sense to you that the word you claim for non-alcoholic wine is in the word drunkenness?
In addition, if oinos means non-alcoholic wine, then why is the word for a tippling have the word oinos in it? Why does the word winebibber have the word oino in it?
paroinos means tippling
oinopotes means winebibber
How does it make sense to you that the word you claim is a non-alcoholic wine also in the word of a tippler?
In case you try to say tippling does not mean someone who drinks alcohol, think again.
tipplingpresent participle of tip•ple
Verb: Drink alcohol, esp. habitually: "those who liked to tipple and gamble".
Last edited by a moderator:
Huh?
It's the very term Josephus uses in Antiquities of the Jews, II.5 for the fruit of the vine pressed on the spot:
What scripture is that?
Oh yeah, it is not scripture. I do not use man’s wisdom in place of God’s wisdom.
Last edited by a moderator:
Leviticus 6:3 or has found something lost and lied about it, swearing falsely—in any of all the things that people do and sin thereby—
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Why take a chance on letting it deceive you in the first place?
Just noticed, didn't get that far in the thread
Using that logic, we should all remain virgins in order to not be deceived by sexual sin as well
- Status