Drinking

[Moriah]

Two sides to this issue.

Your side and teaching makes Jesus a sinner.
Matthew 11:19
The Son of Man came, eating freely and drinking wine — so they say, ‘Aha! A glutton and a drunkard! A friend of tax-collectors and sinners!’ Well, the proof of wisdom is in the actions it produces.”

Matthew 26:27
Also he took a cup of wine, made the b’rakhah, and gave it to them, saying, “All of you, drink from it!

Matthew 26:29
I tell you, I will not drink this ‘fruit of the vine’ again until the day I drink new wine with you in my Father’s Kingdom.”

One side declares God approves of recreational drug use.

Your side makes Jesus a sinner.

The other side says God does not. You must choose your team and live with all the consequences that come along with it. My conscience is clear.

Again, your side make Jesus a sinner.

It is shameful to teach children recreation drugs are ok with God. Shameful.

Are you, or have you ever been overweight? Has anyone in your family been overweight? We must eat correctly and drink correctly, and what you teach your kids, is Jesus was a sinner.

 

[Fred's Wife]

Two sides to this issue. One side declares God approves of recreational drug use. The other side says God does not. You must choose your team and live with all the consequences that come along with it. My conscience is clear.

It is shameful to teach children recreation drugs are ok with God. Shameful.

I certainly agree with you Bro. Steaver.

 

[Moriah]

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. Colossians 2:16

Hebrews 9:10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings--external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, Romans 14:17

 

[Moriah]

Heyyy! Hello? Anybody see this?

Matthew 11:19
The Son of Man came, eating freely and drinking wine — so they say, ‘Aha! A glutton and a drunkard! A friend of tax-collectors and sinners!’ Well, the proof of wisdom is in the actions it produces.”

Matthew 26:27
Also he took a cup of wine, made the b’rakhah, and gave it to them, saying, “All of you, drink from it!

Matthew 26:29
I tell you, I will not drink this ‘fruit of the vine’ again until the day I drink new wine with you in my Father’s Kingdom.”

 

[Jerome]

Hello? Anybody see this?

No, I've never seen the word wine in any of those verses.
What obscure translation are you citing?

 

[Moriah]

No, I've never seen the word wine in any of those verses.
What obscure translation are you citing?

At least someone is paying attention.

Those scriptures are from the Complete Jewish Bible.

P.S. It is not obscure.

 

[steaver]

Matthew 11:19
The Son of Man came, eating freely and drinking wine — so they say, ‘Aha! A glutton and a drunkard! A friend of tax-collectors and sinners!’ Well, the proof of wisdom is in the actions it produces.”

What's your thoughts as to why they called Jesus a drunkard if He never got drunk? Or a glutton if He never over ate?

 

[Moriah]

What's your thoughts as to why they called Jesus a drunkard if He never got drunk? Or a glutton if He never over ate?

They called Jesus a drunkard and a glutton, because that is what evil people do, they falsely accuse.

 

[steaver]

They called Jesus a drunkard and a glutton, because that is what evil people do, they falsely accuse.

I believe you are correct. As Jesus said, John the Baptist didn't eat any "people" food or drink any wine and they called him evil too!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

What's your thoughts as to why they called Jesus a drunkard if He never got drunk? Or a glutton if He never over ate?

The implication of the passage is that the "drinking" was alcohol based in order for the accusation to be made that Jesus was a drunkard. If it was common knowledge that all Jesus drank were milk and water. The accusation would have fallen flat and thus it would never have been made. Therefore if the common knowledge were that Jesus had an alcoholic beverage with these people the accusation would have some teeth because by mere association with the beverage and the people Jesus would have been viewed to have their foiables. regardless if he actually became intoxicated or not. Therefore "drinking" in Jesus case in this passage implies Jesus was drinking alcoholic beverages. It doesn't mean he got drunk. He didn't of course because he is sinless. No more that he stole people's money because he had dinner with tax collectors. But the association of these two activities with the related beverage and people made the accusation seem reasonable to Jesus' enemies.

 

[webdog]

Deuteronomy 14:26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice.

Here wine is listed ALONG with "other fermented drink" (beer in those times). There is no way this verse can be used to say wine was merely juice. I know of no juice that is classified as a "strong drink". The irony is the Lord says to not only purchase it, but consume it in His presence!

 

[12strings]

We need to distinguish between the spiritual and the physical. Circumcision and pork are dealt with in the NT.

No, that would be an OT work. We are under the NT works and abstaining from wine is not a work any more than having faith is a work.

The scripture does not make those distinctions, you may wish it did, but it does not. Kings are not to drink wine and Jesus has made us kings. Why fight this? Do you need that drug that bad??? THe lengths some will go to defend their pleasures!

1. Wine is physical, just like pork.

2. Copying your own bible is not dealt with in the NT.

3. What is this "work" category you are creating? You are just saying it is an OT work with no basis, and no explaination as to why that even makes a difference.

4. The fact remains that you are taking ONE single OT restriction on Kings and ON-DUTY priests, and placing it on every believer because we are called "a kindgom of priests" (not "kings and priests"). You are ignoring dozens of other requirements god put on Kings because you thing this one somehow special.

5. I don't drink, but I don't accuse people of sinning when they are doing something that the bible not only does not forbid, but actually encourages: (see WEbdog):

Deuteronomy 14:26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice.

Here wine is listed ALONG with "other fermented drink" (beer in those times). There is no way this verse can be used to say wine was merely juice. I know of no juice that is classified as a "strong drink". The irony is the Lord says to not only purchase it, but consume it in His presence!

 

[12strings]

Two sides to this issue. One side declares God approves of recreational drug use. The other side says God does not. You must choose your team and live with all the consequences that come along with it. My conscience is clear.

It is shameful to teach children recreation drugs are ok with God. Shameful.

Do you drink coffee? Some people are addicted to it and can't function without it. So it is obviously sinful to drink any caffiene, right?

 

[steaver]

The implication of the passage is that the "drinking" was alcohol based in order for the accusation to be made that Jesus was a drunkard. If it was common knowledge that all Jesus drank were milk and water. The accusation would have fallen flat and thus it would never have been made. Therefore if the common knowledge were that Jesus had an alcoholic beverage with these people the accusation would have some teeth because by mere association with the beverage and the people Jesus would have been viewed to have their foiables. regardless if he actually became intoxicated or not. Therefore "drinking" in Jesus case in this passage implies Jesus was drinking alcoholic beverages. It doesn't mean he got drunk. He didn't of course because he is sinless. No more that he stole people's money because he had dinner with tax collectors. But the association of these two activities with the related beverage and people made the accusation seem reasonable to Jesus' enemies.

Do you know if the accusers drank any wine? Or if they ate any food? Just wondering why they are upset with Jesus eating, don't we all have to eat? Just wondering.

 

[steaver]

Deuteronomy 14:26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice.

Here wine is listed ALONG with "other fermented drink" (beer in those times). There is no way this verse can be used to say wine was merely juice. I know of no juice that is classified as a "strong drink". The irony is the Lord says to not only purchase it, but consume it in His presence!

This is true, for it is God's Word. However, not all were kings and priest as we are in the new covenant. Jesus even said, "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom." Jesus was about to enter into the holy of holies and reclaim His position as King and High Priest. As a king and priest He put away the wine and we are His kings and priests and are instructed to do the same.

 

[steaver]

5. I don't drink, but I don't accuse people of sinning when they are doing something that the bible not only does not forbid, but actually encourages: (see WEbdog):

Deuteronomy 14:26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice.

Here wine is listed ALONG with "other fermented drink" (beer in those times). There is no way this verse can be used to say wine was merely juice. I know of no juice that is classified as a "strong drink". The irony is the Lord says to not only purchase it, but consume it in His presence!

If you truly believe God encourages you to drink alcohol then why would you not obey Him?

 

[webdog]

This is true, for it is God's Word. However, not all were kings and priest as we are in the new covenant. Jesus even said, "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom." Jesus was about to enter into the holy of holies and reclaim His position as King and High Priest. As a king and priest He put away the wine and we are His kings and priests and are instructed to do the same.

Reclaim His position as King and High Priest!?!

He always WAS and IS King and High Priest! Stop letting your convictions interpret Scripture. He partook of alcoholic beverages, period. There are 244 passages in the Bible dealing with alcohol, not one saying what you say.

 

[steaver]

Do you drink coffee? Some people are addicted to it and can't function without it. So it is obviously sinful to drink any caffiene, right?

No i don't, but it smells good, just never got into it. I do drink some caffeine here and there, don't go outa my way to avoid it out and about, but mostly drink pepsi-free. I don't think caffeine would be considered a "getting high" type of drug. Is it considered a drug? Or is it just a sweetner? Not sure.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Do you know if the accusers drank any wine? Or if they ate any food? Just wondering why they are upset with Jesus eating, don't we all have to eat? Just wondering.

The thing about accusers is they are often hypocrites. So yes they probably drink and got drunk. The accusation about eating wasn't the eating part but whom he ate with. The accusation was that Jesus hung out with bad people and must therefore by association be bad. So the implication by their accusation was that Jesus by drinking wine and eating with sinners was a drunkard and a sinner himself. That's where his accusers wanted to go with the accusation. So by implication its clear Jesus drank wine as well as hang out with sinners. However, what they failed to reason was just because Jesus partook in wine and spent time with sinners didn't make him a drunkard or a sinner.

 

[steaver]

Reclaim His position as King and High Priest!?!

He always WAS and IS King and High Priest! Stop letting your convictions interpret Scripture. He partook of alcoholic beverages, period. There are 244 passages in the Bible dealing with alcohol, not one saying what you say.

Here's one....

"[It is] not for kings, O Lemuel, [it is] not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink." (Prov 31)