Support what? That Salvation is temporal and Grace is not?
Or that God, has infinite Mercy and Grace?
Or that he numbers all those who die in infancy among the elect?
Or that they are Safe in the loving arms of Christ?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Examining some of the misguided claims of 316 Tradionalists
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
- Status
Or that God, has infinite Mercy and Grace?
Or that he numbers all those who die in infancy among the elect?
Or that they are Safe in the loving arms of Christ?
A Calvinist Christian man and a Calvinist Christian woman fall in love and marry. They like God's command to be fruitful and multiply so they intend to have many children, maybe a full quiver if possible, which they can pour out their love towards. But with their Calvinist views on election they ponder whether or not they should have any children at all, what if God has not elected to salvation the children they may give birth to and cherish? Maybe God will not love them as they would and instead actually hate their children. What should they do? Take a chance their children whom they will love might be hated by God and sent to the lake of fire? Or better just not have any children?
Ppl should not worry about things they can not control. All any parent can do is raise them to fear the Lord and leave the saving up to Him.
Better to have salvation in the hands of a Holy, just and merciful God than to leave it up to a fallen human who's desire is of the flesh. I much rather trust God with such things then leave it to chance or to my children
*I have never met a Calvinist that has even worried about the above. They have full faith in God and His sovereign decrees
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Yea that
Easy for you to say. How bout if the child dies prior to you being able to raise them. It’s funeraltime! Do you know if your kids in heaven?!? So let’s just not worry.... be happy. So when you worry your face will frown & that will bring everybody down...so don’t worry, be happy now.
Bobby McFerrin Don't Worry Be Happy - Google Search
Salvation is of, through, and by the Lord. No one He has elected will die lost.Easy for you to say. How bout if the child dies prior to you being able to raise them. It’s funeraltime! Do you know if your kids in heaven?!? So let’s just not worry.... be happy. So when you worry your face will frown & that will bring everybody down...so don’t worry, be happy now.
Bobby McFerrin Don't Worry Be Happy - Google Search
InTheLight
It would be preferable to just dialog but when you and your like minded friends look to just go on the attack by twisting and distorting the teaching, and seeking to put words suggesting profane ideas about God...it becomes almost impossible to use edifying words describing this .
We....[I myself, and other Cals] have posted dozens of times about God's perfect and Holy character. That does not stop you and others from making shameful caricatures of God.
This is the excuse for attacking the Holy Character of God....you and others in times past who do not correctly present the teaching say...it is the "Calvinist God" you are speaking about, as if it is not the God of the bible...but you are quite mistaken.
I answered with biblical accuracy...You not liking my answer does not mean i did not answer...
TC gave an answer that many theologians hold...Spurgeon and several others make a biblical case from a scriptural survey of God's character, and mercy.....That is most likely a majority opinion...but I prefer to keep it purely biblical and certain.The statement in the confession of faith is irrefutable.
At this point I have seen you post over a period of time...each poster has an M.O.....your questions made no sense, then I understood what you were up to.
Let's clarify this right here and now....Explain the Covenant of redemption, then the Covenant of grace....accurately, then tell us why you do not hold to it....Another thing...stop blaming God or speaking as if He is a carnal man.
Rom3:23
Okay.
That Salvation is temporal and Grace is not? John 3:16.
Or that God, has infinite Mercy and Grace? John 3:16.
Or that he numbers all those who die in infancy among the elect? John 3:16.
Or that they are Safe in the loving arms of Christ? John 3:16.
A child aborted prior to birth has not yet committed any sin nor broken any commandment. But that baby is, nevertheless, a sinner. Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was born in iniquity. In sin my mother conceived me.
My dog barks. Barking is a characteristic of being a dog.
Does he bark because he is a dog or is he a dog because he barks?
The characteristic of humans is that they sin. Do they sin because they are sinners or are they sinners because they sin?
David said, long before he committed any sin or transgression of the law, that he was "in sin" - another way of saying he was a sinner. Even in the womb he was a sinner.
We are all born "in Adam" and are all in the condition of being in sin, a sinner. And because of our sinful condition, it will soon manifest itself in our life choices. It is our nature.
Remember the story of the fox and the scorpion.
They were standing by a wide swift river. Both wanted to get to the other side but the scorpion couldn't swim.
He asked the fox if he could ride on his back across the river. The fox refused saying “no you’ll sting me and I’ll drown.”
The scorpion assured him, “If I do that, we’ll both drown.”
The fox thought about it and finally agreed. So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim.
Halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him.
As the poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, “Why did you do that? Now we will both drown.”
“I couldn’t help it,” said the scorpion. “It’s my nature.”
It is our nature to sin. We are sinners by nature, and that nature results in action.
Great... everyone gets saved then. So what about being God’s chosen before the ferments were formed....before there was an Adam. Any merit to that?
Last edited:
I’m curious ITL, are you saying that Adams sin affected only him? Then are you saying that we humans can live free of sin if we want to?
Last edited:
No, of course not.
12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
13To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
Romans 5:12-13 NIV
Fetuses have not yet sinned. They aren't yet sinners. But they will be if they are born and mature.
No, not possible to live without sinning.
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:8, 10
But we should strive to be holy, since He is holy.
I am the Lord your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy.
[..]
I am the Lord , who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore be holy, because I am holy.
Leviticus 11:44-45 NIV
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”
1 Peter 1:15-16 NIV
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
Here is your old friend Tony, Dr. Leighton Flowers...
Names Written BEFORE the Foundation of the World?
Names Written BEFORE the Foundation of the World?
steaver,
This might happen....like NEVER. Why this only happens in your imagination you do not take into account that Calvinists know the Lord and trust Him at all times, and know whatever he has purposed will be perfect and righteous, unlike how you attempt to portray all manner of hardship and suffering for Calvinsts.
That would mean God had His reasons to pass them by. In that case the children would grow up and their reprobation would be manifest.
Maybe not.Is that alright with you Steaver?
This might happen....like NEVER. Why this only happens in your imagination you do not take into account that Calvinists know the Lord and trust Him at all times, and know whatever he has purposed will be perfect and righteous, unlike how you attempt to portray all manner of hardship and suffering for Calvinsts.
That would mean God had His reasons to pass them by. In that case the children would grow up and their reprobation would be manifest.
Maybe not.Is that alright with you Steaver?
They should serve God. What did Job do?
There is no "chance"....
A parent should love their children....but lets ask you steaver, your child who you love in this way, grows up to be a serial killer and is caught by the police...because you loved them when they were little children...should they be immune from capitol punishment...because of your great love for them??
If you do not trust god, matbe you should not go outside, because you might get hit by lightning.
Rockson
Active Member
No of course not. Why would it be?
No for I'm absolutely confident God will dispense mercy in such a way that doesn't run contrary to all things he's established about his character and nature. That character is one which displays no hypocrisy or respect to persons. When God gives the Command for all men to repent in Acts 17:20. I have no doubt his kind nature wouldn't trouble individuals to do something they couldn't possibly do. Such would be unfair, unrighteous and cruel. Jesus said we're to do unto others as we'd have them do unto us and it goes without question we wouldn't want somebody insisting we do the impossible either. What would such and act be? Outside of LOVE and God is LOVE. He never leaves LOVE for a moment. To do so would be to deny himself.
No. God (LOVE) allows sinners to choose their own destiny. If you love something set it FREE if it comes back it's yours.....if it doesn't it never was.
And you can control your child to fear the Lord?
This is a red herring. Salvation is ALL of God. I always here the accusation that non-Cals misrepresent Cal's beliefs. Cals do the same thing. God draws, God saves, God allowing a decision does not take anything away from salvation being ALL of God.
What are you trusting God for? Are you trusting God will be Just and leave your child for hell? Or are you trusting God will be merciful and select your child for salvation? Remember also, no matter which you choose to trust God for makes no difference to God. Your trusting will not change anything....isn't that a good relationship to have with God?
What does this mean? Calvinist do not worry about whether or not their children will be left to hell? Sounds cold hearted to me. "They have full faith in God"? What does this matter when it comes to whether or not their children they love may be hated by God? What does your "full faith" consist of? Faith God will give your children what they deserve, hell? Or faith God will save them?
Again, what are you trusting the Lord will do? Are you trusting God will give your child what they deserve, hell? Or are you trusting God will save your child? If you are merely trusting God will do what is Just and Right, then you would be trusting that God will let your child for hell. If your trusting God will save your child, then you believe your trusting is playing a part in God's election. Otherwise, your trusting would be empty and worthless, doesn't matter what you trust the Lord for, it won;t change anything, right?
Why? God might hate their children. Would God require more love out of a fallen sinner than He Himself would give?
but lets ask you steaver, your child who you love in this way, grows up to be a serial killer and is caught by the police...because you loved them when they were little children...should they be immune from capitol punishment...because of your great love for them??
No. He should be locked up for life or given the death penalty. No mercy should be given to him by the government. No pardon should be given to him by any governor. But of course government and law is quite different than our subject at hand. Unless you believe our government giving pardons for merits/good behavior is what you see God doing when He pardons sinners.
All any parent can do is teach them. You are putting too little faith in God’s ability to save. We teach and if they’re saved it’s because He saves. We teach and they’re not saved, it’s their fault for rejecting God’s word.
- Status