God's CHOSEN are always SAVED

[MB]

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: And all those who are sons and daughters of God have the blessed hope of seeing Jesus and being like Him when he shall appear to take his children to a new heavenly home. 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

When do we become like God? when we are adopted. We certainly are not like God. We still sin. God does not sin.
Nothing about adoption. We cannot be adopted because the flesh has not been redeemed.
MB

 

[atpollard]

I guess I don’t see why those verses in Genesis aren’t helpful to you. They give uses of the word that inform you about the word itself.

Can you identify which word in the KJV of those Genesis verses is the English word translated as [G1588] in the LXX?

Since the Greek word has two radically different meanings that are represented by two (or more) different Hebrew words in the OT, I really do not see how the Hebrew word for a "fat, delicious" cow is comparable to a different Hebrew word for a person "selected" by God. On this we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[MB]

Election is not salvific--it's for purpose. God chose Abraham to bring Himself a Family. God chose Christ to bring this covenant into reality. Christ is the primo Elect One. We become part of the elect through Faith in Christ. Abraham is the father of Faith and we become "sons of the household" when we Trust in Christ, receiving the promises and blessings given to Abraham and His family. There can be much to write concerning this. But this is the Gist. Christ is the Elect One from eternity past to bring into being a Kingdom and Family and People that will worship and adore the King forever. Abraham is the family in time and space that brings about an inheritance of God's blessings and promises.

Please show scripture where it says we become elect?
MB

 

[atpollard]

Many verses include the purpose for the choice, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which indicates the Thessalonians were chosen for salvation. OTOH, no verse that I know of indicates a choice for no purpose. None, zip, nada.
Corporate election is found throughout scripture, according to Dr. Dan Wallace. "Thus, election is seen to be initiated by God and effected by God. Those who are chosen—whether individuals or groups—become what they are chosen for."
For example, say God chose His "Redeemer" before the foundation of the world, and thus God chose in choosing Him, those who would be redeemed corporately. However, when an individual is indeed redeemed, they become part of the group chosen corporately before creation.

Really simple

It may be really simple.
However 2 Thessalonians 2:13, which you claim "indicates the Thessalonians were chosen for salvation", is the only SCRIPTURE that you have chosen to offer. Therefore the rest of your "really simple" opinions are based on an appeal to the opinions of Dr. Dan Wallace. Repeating an opinion is not the same as offering scripture that supports your opinion.

That may be sufficient for you, but I went looking to see what GOD has to say in His Bible. So thank you for sharing your opinions, but I am searching for God's opinion and not man's opinion.

 

[MB]

It may be really simple.
However 2 Thessalonians 2:13, which you claim "indicates the Thessalonians were chosen for salvation", is the only SCRIPTURE that you have chosen to offer. Therefore the rest of your "really simple" opinions are based on an appeal to the opinions of Dr. Dan Wallace. Repeating an opinion is not the same as offering scripture that supports your opinion.

That may be sufficient for you, but I went looking to see what GOD has to say in His Bible. So thank you for sharing your opinions, but I am searching for God's opinion and not man's opinion.

I sincerely hope you find it. When we interpret scripture is really nothing but an opinion.
MB

 

[Derf B]

Thank you for your opinion.
Is there any verse of scripture where God claims unsaved Jews are "His chosen"?

[Rom 9:4 NKJV] 4 who are Israelites, to whom [pertain] the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service [of God], and the promises;

Can you identify which word in the KJV of those Genesis verses is the English word translated as [G1588] in the LXX?

Since the Greek word has two radically different meanings that are represented by two (or more) different Hebrew words in the OT, I really do not see how the Hebrew word for a "fat, delicious" cow is comparable to a different Hebrew word for a person "selected" by God. On this we will have to agree to disagree.

Maybe that's because you've never had your own cows before.

 

[JonShaff]

I'm sorry sir, I disagree.
To me, election is to salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 8:28-30 ), but I do agree that it is for a purpose.

I'm reminded of this passage when I read your quote above:

" Now I say, [That] the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 but is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ." ( Galatians 4:1-7 ).

Jon,
The above tells me the following:

1) The example is given that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ with a servant of the household though the heir is ( and will be ) lord of all in that household.
2) The heir is also under tutors and governors ( teachers and overseers ) until the time that their father's appointment becomes a reality and they assume their role.
3) Believers, when they were children ( did you catch that? Believers in Christ are yet children even before they are made aware of their salvation, that is how I read it ), were in bondage ( servitude ) under the elements of the world.
4) When the fulness of time was come, God sent His son ( made of a woman, made under the Law of Moses )…
5) To redeem them ( the elect ) that were under the Law...so that we ( those that would believe, His elect ) might receive the adoption of sons.
6) And because we ( the whosoever believeth, from the heart ) are sons ( not "will be" ), God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba, Father".
7) We, as God's elect are no more servants, but sons. If we are sons, then we are also heirs of God through Christ.

In other words, I don't see this passage describing what I've underlined in your quote above ( a "will be" with respect to becoming an heir ) or becoming ( to go from being one to the other ) sons of the household;
But we "already are" when it comes to being part of God's household, even before we have believed.

What do you see when you read this passage, if I may ask?

Paul said in Ephesians 2:3
among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

 

[JonShaff]

Please show scripture where it says we become elect?
MB

Paul said in Ephesians 2:3
among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Romans 4
16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring

We become part of Abraham's Family (the Elect ones) AFTER Faith in Christ.

Psalm 33:12
Psalm 105:6

 

[Yeshua1]

Barry ignores all other verses about our adoption and isolates only Romans 8:23 with no concern for context or scripture interpreting scripture.
He's singularly focused on his false doctrine.

seems that is a problem by some on this board!
Staying ground and fixed on their own bad pet theology!

 

[Yeshua1]

Pardon the interruption of the fray.

Let us note three things about being chosen.

1) We are always chosen for a purpose, and if the purpose is salvation, that is the result.
2) Were we chosen corporately, as a group, say those to be redeemed through faith, or individually for salvation, those placed into Christ and thus saved forever.
3) When an individual is chosen for salvation, then they become part of the corporate group, as they are redeemed, that was chosen before creation.

Really simple when you think about it...

Carry on...

NT election is on an individual, not cooperate basis, so carry on!

 

[Yeshua1]

When do we become like God? when we are adopted. We certainly are not like God. We still sin. God does not sin.
Nothing about adoption. We cannot be adopted because the flesh has not been redeemed.
MB

Right now have been saved and sealed and adopted, already an heir with Christ!

 

[MB]

Paul said in Ephesians 2:3
among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Romans 4
16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring

We become part of Abraham's Family (the Elect ones) AFTER Faith in Christ.

Psalm 33:12
Psalm 105:6

Even Abraham lacked election. It didn't start until Jacob. Election is to service and that only of the Jews.Yet none of these verses confirm election of anyone but Jews. Are you Calvinist or Arminian ?
MB

 

[MB]

Right now have been saved and sealed and adopted, already an heir with Christ!

You may e saved yet your flesh has not been redeemed.
MB

 

[atpollard]

Maybe that's because you've never had your own cows before.

I have had a cow ... they like to step on your feet.

 

[Sai]

One of the problems with being chosen to be saved is that you don't have a verse that says your predestinated to glorification.

It’s not even worth looking up man. Elect means redeemed. Foreknowledge means preplanned. God preplanned for the redeemed to be saved and used election to determine who would be with Christ in glory.

The facts are that 99.99% of the human race are not going to be saved.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[Dave G]

Paul said in Ephesians 2:3
among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

I agree.
All of God's children were, by nature ( in their hearts ) the children of wrath even as others were.

We become part of Abraham's Family (the Elect ones) AFTER Faith in Christ.

I both agree and disagree.
I see that we as believers are "in Christ" ( placed within the spiritual body of Christ ) after we have believed ( Ephesians 1:13 ).

However, according to Ephesians 1:4-5, the believer was chosen "in Christ" ( to be placed within the body ) before the foundation of the world.
Therefore, they were elect from that point....
Foreknown, predestinated, etc. ( Romans 8:29-30 ).

They had an inheritance prepared for them from the foundation of the world ( Matthew 25:34 ) and their names were written in the Book of Life at that point ( Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8 ).
Also, given that according to John 6:37-47, no one can come to Christ unless it is given to them by the Father to do so, and given the same thing in John 6:64-65 and that Christ does not give eternal life to anyone that is not given to Him by His Father ( John 17:2-3 )...
Then one must first be a sheep in order to believe on Christ ( John 10:26 ), as well as it being given to them in the behalf of Christ to both believe on Him and to suffer for His sake ( Philippians 1:29 ).



But that wasn't my question, Jon.
My question was,

What do you see when you read this passage, if I may ask?

Referring to Galatians 4:1-7.

I thought it helpful to show you what I see, line by line, when I read it for myself;
I'm curious...
What do you see when you read it?

 

[Derf B]

I have had a cow ... they like to step on your feet.

If they’re mean, they are by definition “fat and delicious”.

And I try to keep my feet away. My daughter had one push her into the water tank once, though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AustinC]

Even Abraham lacked election. It didn't start until Jacob. Election is to service and that only of the Jews.Yet none of these verses confirm election of anyone but Jews. Are you Calvinist or Arminian ?
MB

Where do you get this opinion. Provide the verses and the explanation of those verses to show your reasoning.

I'm giving you a chance to clearly prove your thoughts. Please share.

 

[percho]

Right now have been saved and sealed and adopted, already an heir with Christ!

I believe the appointed heir of all things, the Son of God, has obtained by inheritance all things and the Spirit has made us joint heirs but not yet inheritors. I believe heir and inheritor are time relevant.

 

[AustinC]

I believe the appointed heir of all things, the Son of God, has obtained by inheritance all things and the Spirit has made us joint heirs but not yet inheritors. I believe heir and inheritor are time relevant.

Explain how God calls us sons in the present tense. (This also calls into question those who claim the adoption as sons is future tense.)

Hebrews 12:5-7
And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?