Everyone knows there are fakes out there...so what did you just prove?
That still does not disprove the real!
I guess you are like those that look at the hypocrites and say christianity is not real!
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Have Any Spiritual Gifts Ever "Died Out"?
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That still does not disprove the real!
I guess you are like those that look at the hypocrites and say christianity is not real!
I unlike you...believe it can happen all at once or separate. No one has to wait for it! But there are two works of the Holy Spirit..spirit within/salvation..spirit upon/power. If I received it all at once (which is possible), then my bad teachings in the past kept me from realizing it. They failed to teach me the power that I could be walking in. It was not until I was explained the scriptures plainly that I understood and by faith received what the Word says!I and all Christians have been baptized by the Holy Spirit. It is not something anyone has to seek for or wait for after conversion. That is a false gospel which divides Christians into two classes, a superior one and an inferior one.
Your denial of 1800 years of history is absurd.I unlike you...believe it can happen all at once or separate. No one has to wait for it! But there are two works of the Holy Spirit..spirit within/salvation..spirit upon/power. If I received it all at once (which is possible), then my bad teachings in the past kept me from realizing it. They failed to teach me the power that I could be walking in. It was not until I was explained the scriptures plainly that I understood and by faith received what the Word says!
Your inability to demonstrate that the gifts are for today is shameful.
And you lowering to degrading the person because you can not prove in the scriptures when they will end speaks for itself!Your denial of 1800 years of history is absurd.
Your inability to demonstrate that the gifts are for today is shameful.
After Paul went through everything he had to say about the misuse of tongues in the 14th chapter of 1Corinthians, he concluded with these words:And you lowering to degrading the person because you can not prove in the scriptures when they will end speaks for itself!
"Let him that is ignorant be ignorant still."
If you are not going to accept what I say, then just remain in your ignorance and I will let God deal with you. That is basically what he said to them.
But if I come even close to saying that you are very much offended and tell me that I am degrading you. The Word speaks for itself, and you ignore it.
I have proved my case through Scripture and you ignore what I post. My previous post you have ignored. You have no answer for the silence of history. You have no answer for the inability of faith healers, so-called, not able to heal, or miracle workers not being able to work miracles, or tongues speakers not being able to speak in foreign languages as they did in the first century.
This is what is called fraud.
What answer can you give. This is not an attack on you personally but an attack on the entire movement.
But when you take that movement on personally and personally make these claims that your claim is fraudulent. Fraud is very serious. Why don't you understand that? Why can't you understand that if you studied history you would find that there were greater movements of the working of the Holy Spirit, and great revivals then you have ever seen in this 21st century, the Charismatic movement notwithstanding. These things are entirely outside the Charismatic movement and have nothing to do with speaking in tongues. But you relegate the work of the Spirit to unbelief!!!!
Exactly! If you chose not to accept what he says about tongues being speaking to God/praying in the spirit/ blessing/ giving thanks. If you chose not to believe that the gifts will be done away with when we see face to face/know as we are known. Then just remain in your ignorance and I will add unbelief!After Paul went through everything he had to say about the misuse of tongues in the 14th chapter of 1Corinthians, he concluded with these words:
"Let him that is ignorant be ignorant still."
If you are not going to accept what I say, then just remain in your ignorance and I will let God deal with you. That is basically what he said to them.
The bold says it all!But if I come even close to saying that you are very much offended and tell me that I am degrading you. The Word speaks for itself, and you ignore it.
I have proved my case through Scripture and you ignore what I post. My previous post you have ignored. You have no answer for the silence of history. You have no answer for the inability of faith healers, so-called, not able to heal, or miracle workers not being able to work miracles, or tongues speakers not being able to speak in foreign languages as they did in the first century.
This is what is called fraud.
What answer can you give. This is not an attack on you personally but an attack on the entire movement.
But when you take that movement on personally and personally make these claims that your claim is fraudulent. Fraud is very serious. Why don't you understand that? Why can't you understand that if you studied history you would find that there were greater movements of the working of the Holy Spirit, and great revivals then you have ever seen in this 21st century, the Charismatic movement notwithstanding. These things are entirely outside the Charismatic movement and have nothing to do with speaking in tongues. But you relegate the work of the Spirit to unbelief!!!!
I am not the one in unbelief. Others have tried to show you this. You don't believe 1800 years of history. How do you account for that?Exactly! If you chose not to accept what he says about tongues being speaking to God/praying in the spirit/ blessing/ giving thanks. If you chose not to believe that the gifts will be done away with when we see face to face/know as we are known. Then just remain in your ignorance and I will add unbelief!
Yes it does. You don't accept teaching, rebuke, the history of tongues, the current inability for the gifts to be in operation today. You unbelief is outstanding.The bold says it all!
Ephesians 4:4-10 says that the Spiritual gifts are to remain until the 2nd coming.
The 1Cor 13 statement predicts a time when they will end - but for now "we see in a glass darkly but then face to face " 1Cor 13:12.
And of course John tells us when that will be in 1John 3 "when He appears we shall see Him as He is for we shall be like Him".
in Christ,
Bob
the offices of Apostle/prophet ceased to operate after the Apostolic Age, as NO need for ongoing revelations, and the Gift bestowed to heal and do miracles ceased, for since John passed away, god has healed and done miracles, but for his plan and purposes, NONE gifted by him any more to do such!
Everyone knows there are fakes out there...so what did you just prove?
That still does not disprove the real!
I guess you are like those that look at the hypocrites and say christianity is not real!
We know that God can and still does divine healing today, but its in response to prayers of the saints to him, and if it is His Will to do it!
Do you know ANY healings done by one gifted to heal by God themselves?
Do you hold that physical healing was in the stonement, and that its His will to always heal, bless, prosper IF one has enough faith to "name it claim it?"
Prove it by scriptures!!! YOU CAN NOT!!I am not the one in unbelief. Others have tried to show you this. You don't believe 1800 years of history. How do you account for that?
You denying what is plain is scriptures is outstanding! But demeaning each other will not settle the debate WITH SCRIPTURES!Yes it does. You don't accept teaching, rebuke, the history of tongues, the current inability for the gifts to be in operation today. You unbelief is outstanding.
He still does it! Period! Not by man's power...but by the Holy Spirit!We know that God can and still does divine healing today, but its in response to prayers of the saints to him, and if it is His Will to do it!
Lets stick to the Op....can you prove the spiritual gifts ever died out WITH SCRIPTURES? Can you? NO!Do you know ANY healings done by one gifted to heal by God themselves?
Do you hold that physical healing was in the stonement, and that its His will to always heal, bless, prosper IF one has enough faith to "name it claim it?"
He still does it! Period! Not by man's power...but by the Holy Spirit!
Lets stick to the Op....can you prove the spiritual gifts ever died out WITH SCRIPTURES? Can you? NO!
NONE here say ALl of them passed away, just that Apsotle/prophet offices closed, and the gifts to heal/do miracles and give revelatio to the church ceased!
And do you hold that its the will of God to always heal a Christian?
I have used plenty of Scripture not only in this thread, but in the other one, especially in the other thread.Prove it by scriptures!!! YOU CAN NOT!!
You denying what is plain is scriptures is outstanding! But demeaning each other will not settle the debate WITH SCRIPTURES!
Here I have challenged you with history, a history you deny. Let me give you one example, just one, where you say people deny the power of the Holy Spirit:
In 1904, Indian Christians and western missionaries gathered for the first of an annual series of conventions at Sialkot in what is today Pakistan. To support this time of spiritual renewal, John Hyde and his friends formed the Punjab Prayer Union, setting aside half an hour each day to pray for revival. The results of their prayers were plainly seen at the Sialkot Convention as a special anointing fell upon those gathered. Year by year the prayer union fasted and prayed, and at each convention a growing urgency for evangelism and intercession filled each attendee. John Hyde emerged as the prayer leader, and all were amazed at both the depth of his spiritual insight, and the ferocity of his burden for India.
By 1908, John Hyde dared to pray what was to many at the convention an impossible request: that during the coming year in India one soul would be saved every day. Three hundred sixty five people converted, baptized, and publicly confessing Jesus as their Savior. Impossible -- yet it happened. Before the next convention John Hyde had prayed more than 400 people into God's kingdom, and when the prayer union gathered again, he doubled his goal to two souls a day. Eight hundred conversions were recorded that year, and still Hyde showed an unquenchable passion for lost souls.
At the 1910 convention, those around Hyde marveled at his faith, as they witnessed his near violent supplications, "Give me souls, oh God, or I die!" Before the meeting ended, John Hyde revealed that he was again doubling his goal for the coming year. Four souls a day, and nothing less. During the next twelve months John Hyde's ministry took him throughout India. By now he was known as "Praying Hyde," and his intercession was sought at revivals in Calcutta, Bombay, and other large cities. If on any day four people were not converted, Hyde said at night there would be such a weight on his heart he could not eat or sleep until he had prayed through to victory. The number of new converts continually grew.
http://www.upstreamca.org/prayinghyde.html
You have never seen any thing like that. You have never experienced such power. Yet you deny it has happened. Hyde lived from 1865-1912. He saw thousands come to the Lord. There was great power upon his life. He never spoke in tongues. He was Presbyterian.
This is part of that 1800 years of history where you deny the Holy Spirit was working. What a shame!
None of the nine listed in chapter 12 have ceased! THey will not cease until we see face to face and we know as we are known!NONE here say ALl of them passed away, just that Apsotle/prophet offices closed, and the gifts to heal/do miracles and give revelatio to the church ceased!
And do you hold that its the will of God to always heal a Christian?
First off I have NEVER denied the power of the HOLY Spirit..whether it is salvation or manifesting through the believer as he said he can in Chapter 12 of Corinthians!I have used plenty of Scripture not only in this thread, but in the other one, especially in the other thread.
Here I have challenged you with history, a history you deny. Let me give you one example, just one, where you say people deny the power of the Holy Spirit:
http://www.upstreamca.org/prayinghyde.html
You have never seen any thing like that. You have never experienced such power. Yet you deny it has happened. Hyde lived from 1865-1912. He saw thousands come to the Lord. There was great power upon his life. He never spoke in tongues. He was Presbyterian.
This is part of that 1800 years of history where you deny the Holy Spirit was working. What a shame!
You on the other hand have denied the manifestation of the Holy Spirit as explained in chapter 12! You claimed they have ceased without proof!
First off I have NEVER denied the power of the HOLY Spirit..whether it is salvation or manifesting through the believer as he said he can in Chapter 12 of Corinthians!
You on the other hand have denied the manifestation of the Holy Spirit as explained in chapter 12! You claimed they have ceased without proof!
is the HS a Person to you, as you keep referring to the "manifestation!"
And the gifts were operating in time of Acts, Apostolic Age, the sign gifts not now!
the good News on this is that yu can still get 'delivered' from this, as check the archives, DHK and i used to talk back and forth like you are with us!
The manifestation OF the Holy Spirit!! Yes! He is a person!is the HS a Person to you, as you keep referring to the "manifestation!"
1 Corinthians 12:7 will be a good reference for you to understand this!
CEV 1Co 12:7 The Spirit has given each of us a special way of serving others.The manifestation OF the Holy Spirit!! Yes! He is a person!
1 Corinthians 12:7 will be a good reference for you to understand this!
The manifestation OF the Holy Spirit!! Yes! He is a person!
1 Corinthians 12:7 will be a good reference for you to understand this!
who had the gift of healings and miracles recorded down outside of the book of acts?
did peter or paul record in their letters the miracles and healings god did by their hands ?
can't you see that the gifts like that were ceasing even during the time of hthe NT books being written , as evidenced in hebrews 2:2-4?
I gave you the example of Praying Hyde, and the great power that was upon his life and ministry. The above is the response to his testimony and the Holy Spirit working through his life.First off I have NEVER denied the power of the HOLY Spirit..whether it is salvation or manifesting through the believer as he said he can in Chapter 12 of Corinthians!
You on the other hand have denied the manifestation of the Holy Spirit as explained in chapter 12! You claimed they have ceased without proof!
However this is what you said previously:
Well, Maybe Christianity should not have taught the manifestations of the Spirit away and we would have seen more through history!
[FONT="]http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1972311&postcount=138
Your stand is that Christianity did not teach what you believe is "the manifestation of the Holy Spirit" for 1800 years. That is what you said in post #138, and that is what you have said and claimed in other threads. That is your belief. Therefore what happened in India at the time of Praying Hyde, according to you must be of Satan, because the Holy Spirit wasn't working during that period. People had stopped believing.
Like I said, it is shameful the way you treat history, 1800 years of it.
It is shameful the way that you treat this current era:
That you are not able to demonstrate these same gifts that you believe are in operation; you cannot demonstrate that they are in operation. There is no available evidence that they are. We call that fraud. What do you call it? Belief in the non-existent? That is foolishness. [/FONT]
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