Have Any Spiritual Gifts Ever "Died Out"?

[awaken]

You can't answer a combination of scripture and history, can you?
Try it again. I'll post it again, and then spoon feed it too you.

"Have any of the spiritual gifts died out?"
That is the name of this thread.
I have given you plenty of Scripture relating to the apostles, the completion of the Word, a sign to the Jews, etc. There is lots of Scripture, plus the fact that there is no historical evidence that they have been practiced for the last 1900 years or are being practiced now.
You won't give any evidence, thus your credibility is at zero.
Why do you claim something that you cannot do?
Why shouldn't you receive the same condemnation that Charles Taze Russell got?
Please explain!

1. Scripture relating to the Apostles:
2 Corinthians 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
--The spiritual gifts have died out because they were the spiritual gifts were the signs of an apostle. The apostles are dead. The Twelve Apostles are dead. Even those apostles called the "apostles of the churches" are dead. There has never been any apostolic succession. There are no apostles today, and hence no sign gifts. They have ceased. The last reference in Hebrews makes this particularly clear.

2. The completion of the Word.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
--Tongues, prophecy and revelatory knowledge would all cease when the word of God would be completed. They were temporary gifts, given for a short period of time, only while the word of God was still being written. By the end of the first century, they had ceased. That is the second reason.

3. Tongues were a sign to the Jews.
1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
--This people is Israel. Tongues were a sign to the nation of Israel. It first came on the day of Pentecost, twice more that we know of in the book of Acts, and then is only recorded in the church of Corinth. One of the most important purposes was to serve as a sign to the Jews that what the Apostles were preaching was a message of God, and if they didn't believe it judgement would come. As prophesied they did not accept it; judgment came in 70 A.D. Jerusalem was destroyed; the Temple razed; and the nation dispersed. Israel was so scattered that it did not become a nation until 1900 years later in 1948.

4. From that approximate time (70-90 A.D.) the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased. There is no record of speaking in tongues, that is the actual gift of speaking in languages in history. The only version of speaking in tongues that we have in history is that which originated in 1905, "the gibberish" that modern day Charismatics speak today, and has been spoken previously in paganism. The roots of the modern day Charismatic movement is paganism.
There is no place in history in the last 1900 years where we see any example of a demonstration of the Biblical gift of healing or the Biblical gift of miracles.

5. There is no present-day demonstration of any of the above mentioned three gifts either.
Therefore I ask you again to explain yourself.
You claim these gifts are operative. But you can't demonstrate that they are, or even point to a person who can. Why shouldn't you receive the same condemnation that Charles Taze Russell did?

I have addressed all of this either in this thread or others..
In this thread alone you can find my responses to this in post #45, 53, 54, 60...

 

[DHK]

I have addressed all of this either in this thread or others..
In this thread alone you can find my responses to this in post #45, 53, 54, 60...

Like I anticipated, you really didn't want a well thought out response backed up with Scripture. It was all bluff and bluster.
Your post in #187 says:

Well...it is evident that no one is able to address any of the post on this thread with scriptures!
http://www.baptistboard.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=1973967

And you have repeated it a number of times.
So I took your bait and gave you the answer, and then I gave it to you with the Scriptures added in with further explanation.
The result--rejection--just as I predicted.
You are unteachable. You don't want to hear the truth. Why are you even here? It is certainly not to learn.

 

[awaken]

Like I anticipated, you really didn't want a well thought out response backed up with Scripture. It was all bluff and bluster.
Your post in #187 says:

And you have repeated it a number of times.
So I took your bait and gave you the answer, and then I gave it to you with the Scriptures added in with further explanation.
The result--rejection--just as I predicted.
You are unteachable. You don't want to hear the truth. Why are you even here? It is certainly not to learn.

NO, I don't want your assumptions and your own interpretation added to what the plain meaning in scriptures say! I addressed your post many times in other post!

You on the other hand have avoided most of what the scriptures say about the gifts ceasing!
YOU take one word...in one verse...in one chapter..in the whole Bible to prove your point! Even in that you twist what perfect means to fit your man made theology!

 

[Yeshua1]

I have addressed all of this either in this thread or others..
In this thread alone you can find my responses to this in post #45, 53, 54, 60...

Do yopu hold that the gifts died out in the Church due to unbelief, but that God restored them fully back to the Church, in order to have that 'NT church without spot or wrinkle" right before the Second Coming?

 

[awaken]

Do yopu hold that the gifts died out in the Church due to unbelief, but that God restored them fully back to the Church, in order to have that 'NT church without spot or wrinkle" right before the Second Coming?

I believe we were taught unbelief, yes! But I also believe that the gifts have been around since the Day of Pentecost!
I believe we will be seeing more of the manifestation of the Holy Spirit once believers have renewed there minds to what the scriptures say about this! We can not walk out what we do not believe!

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe we were taught unbelief, yes! But I also believe that the gifts have been around since the Day of Pentecost!
I believe we will be seeing more of the manifestation of the Holy Spirit once believers have renewed there minds to what the scriptures say about this! We can not walk out what we do not believe!

So you hold they have never ceased in the church, just died down due to unbelief? So what was God actually doing in 1905 in your opinion?

 

[awaken]

So you hold they have never ceased in the church, just died down due to unbelief? So what was God actually doing in 1905 in your opinion?

What happen in 1905?

 

[Yeshua1]

What happen in 1905?

The Azusa Street Revival was a historic Pentecostal revival meeting that took place in Los Angeles, California and is the origin of the Pentecostal movement.[1] It was led by William J. Seymour, an African American preacher. It began with a meeting on April 9, 1906, and continued until roughly 1915. The revival was characterized by ecstatic spiritual experiences accompanied by miracles, dramatic worship services, speaking in tongues, and inter-racial mingling. The participants were criticized by the secular media and Christian theologians for behaviors considered to be outrageous and unorthodox, especially at the time. Today, the revival is considered by historians to be the primary catalyst for the spread of Pentecostalism in the 20th century.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

THAT is the event that launched modern day Charasmatic chaos!

 

[awaken]

The Azusa Street Revival was a historic Pentecostal revival meeting that took place in Los Angeles, California and is the origin of the Pentecostal movement.[1] It was led by William J. Seymour, an African American preacher. It began with a meeting on April 9, 1906, and continued until roughly 1915. The revival was characterized by ecstatic spiritual experiences accompanied by miracles, dramatic worship services, speaking in tongues, and inter-racial mingling. The participants were criticized by the secular media and Christian theologians for behaviors considered to be outrageous and unorthodox, especially at the time. Today, the revival is considered by historians to be the primary catalyst for the spread of Pentecostalism in the 20th century.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

THAT is the event that launched modern day Charasmatic chaos!

Are you sure it is not the Holy Spirit? Maybe it just took someone to step out of their unbelief!

 

[DHK]

What happen in 1905?

This might help:

The Pentecostal movement traces its founding to the “tongues speaking” that broke out at Charles Parham’s Bible School in Topeka, Kansas in 1901 and at the Azusa Street Mission in Los Angeles in 1906.

The stage was set by the late 19th century for Pentecostalism to be birthed. The holiness movement had produced a frenzy of spiritual excitement and a lusting after “second blessings” and “second baptisms.” Men such as John Dowie and Frank Sandford had set the stage with their emphasis on divine healing and the expectation of an end-times miracle revival and the reestablishment of apostolic sign gifts, including tongues speaking.


By any reckoning Charles Parham (1873-1929) is a key figure in the birth of Pentecostalism. He was ordained as a Methodist, but “left the organization after a falling out with his ecclesiastical superiors” (Larry Martin, The Topeka Outpouring of 1901, p. 14). In a restless search for religious instruction he visited the ministries of a number of strange holiness, faith-healing, and latter rain teachers, picking up various heresies along the way, which he eventually merged together into his Pentecostal theology.

Prior to the turn of the century, Parham observed the meetings of Benjamin Irwin, founder of the Fire-Baptized Holiness Church, and was deeply influenced by Irwin’s “third blessing” doctrine (the blessing of salvation, the blessing of power, and the blessing of sinless perfection). As we have seen, Irwin taught that it was necessary for the Christian to seek the “baptism of fire” for power and perfection. Pentecostal historian Vinson Synan admits this connection:

“THE FIRE-BAPTIZED HOLINESS CHURCH SERVED AS AN IMPORTANT LINK IN THE CHAIN THAT LATER PRODUCED THE MODERN PENTECOSTAL MOVEMENT. By teaching that the baptism of the Holy Ghost was an experience separate from and subsequent to sanctification, it laid the basic doctrinal premise of the later movement. It is probable that Charles F. Parham, the man who initiated the Pentecostal revival in Topeka, Kansas, in 1901, received from Irwin the basic idea of a separate baptism of the Holy Ghost following sanctification. Indeed, for a time in 1899, Parham promoted the ‘baptism of fire’ in his Apostolic Faith magazine” (Synan, The Holiness-Pentecostal Tradition, p. 59).

Parham adopted the heresy of annihilation from his Quaker grandfather-in-law, David Baker, denying the eternal punishment of the wicked and believing, rather, that that the unsaved would be annihilated in hell.

In 1898 Parham came under the influence of the aforementioned Frank Sandford, and in 1900 Parham traveled to Chicago to study the ministry of John Dowie and to examine Zion City.

Like Sandford and Dowie, Charles Parham taught that physical healing is the Christian’s birthright and he railed against the use of medicine and doctors. He taught that it was always God’s will to heal sicknesses. In the Sept. 13, 1899, issue of his Apostolic Faith magazine, Parham replied to the question of whether the Bible forbids the use of medicine by exclaiming, “We say yes, most emphatically YES” (emphasis his).

An issue of Christian History magazine (Issue 58, Vol. XVII, No. 2, 1998) contains a photo of Parham and seven of his followers standing on the steps of the Carthage, Missouri, courthouse. The year was 1906 and Parham is holding a flagpole with banners reading “Apostolic Unity.” The others are holding banners proclaiming “Truth, Faith, Life, Victory, HEALTH.” They were making a statement of their doctrinal position that health is a guaranteed part of the Christian life.

Parham was the first Pentecostal preacher to pray over handkerchiefs and mail them to those who desired his ministrations (James Goff Jr., Fields White Unto Harvest, p. 104).

Read the entire article here:
http://www.wayoflife.org/database/strangehistory.html

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I have mentioned Parham and Seymour here many times.

It seems to me the question that any serious seeker of truth should be asking is this: How can any movement founded on such blatant twisting of scripture and falsehood lay claim to any validity whatsoever?

 

[awaken]

I have mentioned Parham and Seymour here many times.

It seems to me the question that any serious seeker of truth should be asking is this: How can any movement founded on such blatant twisting of scripture and falsehood lay claim to any validity whatsoever?

Well, I do not follow this movement! I follow the Word of God!
There are false christians too! Should we not follow what the BIBLE says about the things of God just because there are false out there?

I did not go to a movement to get my doctrine, you can not find me quoting any movement or posting it on this board.

 

[Yeshua1]

Well, I do not follow this movement! I follow the Word of God!
There are false christians too! Should we not follow what the BIBLE says about the things of God just because there are false out there?

I did not go to a movement to get my doctrine, you can not find me quoting any movement or posting it on this board.

You cannot use ANY scripture to prove your experience though, the ONLY thing you left to rely upon would be the teachers/pastors in the "Movement!"

Based upon what you know, can you really say the HS was in the 1905-06 revivals?

 

[awaken]

You cannot use ANY scripture to prove your experience though, the ONLY thing you left to rely upon would be the teachers/pastors in the "Movement!"

Based upon what you know, can you really say the HS was in the 1905-06 revivals?

THe Holy Spirit was with the church at Corinthians and they had some major problems, didn't they?

# 1 I have not shared ALL my experiences with you!
#2 You judge what you know not! You can not say who or what I rely on! You do not know me or my walk with God! I have shared NOTHING but scriptures with you. But you on the other hand leave out scriptures to prove your stand!

 

[Yeshua1]

THe Holy Spirit was with the church at Corinthians and they had some major problems, didn't they?

# 1 I have not shared ALL my experiences with you!
#2 You judge what you know not! You can not say who or what I rely on! You do not know me or my walk with God! I have shared NOTHING but scriptures with you. But you on the other hand leave out scriptures to prove your stand!

you have given to us misunderstanding of the scriptures basically, using your own experiences and emotions to "proof text' them to support your theology!

Do you belong to a Charasmatic baptist church?

Are your pastor/teachers charasmatic also?

Do yuo have prophesying/tongues in services?

 

[DHK]

Well, I do not follow this movement! I follow the Word of God!
There are false christians too! Should we not follow what the BIBLE says about the things of God just because there are false out there?

I did not go to a movement to get my doctrine, you can not find me quoting any movement or posting it on this board.

You do follow this movement, and whether directly or indirectly you have admitted that you do. You have given testimony that since the first century the "church" has remained in unbelief for 1900 years until 1905 when the "church" started to believe once again in the spiritual gifts, or as you put it, "the manifestation." You used the "1900 years" date yourself. What were you referring to? You have some knowledge of this; don't claim ignorance now.

You claimed that the church was in darkness until about 100 years ago. Why? Obviously that is when the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement in which you are involved started. You are a part of it. You are a part of the movement which has its roots in paganism, not in the Bible. For that 1800 period (to be more precise end of the 1st century ca. 100 A.D. -1905), there is no history of the Biblical gift of speaking in tongues. Neither you or we can provide any evidence of that gift. Thus we both must agree on that point.

But we can provide you with much evidence of great revivals, the Holy Spirit working mightily upon many different individuals, missionaries going to foreign nations and bringing revivals to different nations, etc. Yet, you will deny all of this history, because you say for 1800 years the "church" was in unbelief. Truly astounding!!

Again your theology is based on your experience.
You are one confused individual.

 

[awaken]

Again your theology is based on your experience.
You are one confused individual.

I read it in His Word! I believed it! I received it! I experienced it!

 

[awaken]

you have given to us misunderstanding of the scriptures basically, using your own experiences and emotions to "proof text' them to support your theology!

Do you belong to a Charasmatic baptist church?

Are your pastor/teachers charasmatic also?

Do yuo have prophesying/tongues in services?

What does that have to do with the scriptures? Prove the gifts have ceased or died out by scripture!

 

[Yeshua1]

What does that have to do with the scriptures? Prove the gifts have ceased or died out by scripture!

The gifts to do tongues/miracles/healings ceased with john death, but the Lord still gives giftss to us to teach/preach/give/lead etc!

those sign gifts not needed any more, but the rest of them are!

And was just curious if yoyur church opennly practiced thiose gifts you claim to have!

 

[awaken]

The gifts to do tongues/miracles/healings ceased with john death, but the Lord still gives giftss to us to teach/preach/give/lead etc!

those sign gifts not needed any more, but the rest of them are!

And was just curious if yoyur church opennly practiced thiose gifts you claim to have!

I ask for scriptures and you give your opinion!