Have Any Spiritual Gifts Ever "Died Out"?

[DHK]

Well, I can give the same testimony about both of my experiences with God!
Have I been called to manifest a miracle, no! But does that prove that he does not manifest today because I do not? NO!

You are trying to prove or disprove the Bible by one person's testimony. Stick to the scriptures!

By one person's testimony??
No.
I grant you the world.

Show me any person in all the world that can demonstrate the gift of miracles, the gift of healing, the gift of Biblical languages. Where are they.

Do you think there is a person alive that can walk into a hospital and just with the touch of his hand heal all that are in the hospital, or even the ER room. Not a chance! No one today has that wonderful gift of healing that Peter had.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

So you are taking the fake to prove the real wrong??

I have not lied about what you said! I questioned what you said and you got offended!

The point, which you seem to be unable to grasp, is that the experience of missionaries on the mission field prove that there is no "real" in this matter. 99%-plus of tongues-talk is not real language but merely gibberish and vain babblings of deceived and deluded people. I will say that I have heard a couple of instances of what I thought were possibly real languages, but I couldn't prove it.

You continually say that I said something which I did not. This can be clearly seen by anyone who can read.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

That is your choice to believe or not to believe what was presented! I kept it in context and not one scripture contradicted the other! You theory on the other hand does contradict other scriptures. If you would like to state you side of the debate, fine! But the last few pages of this thread was nothing but personal attacks and opinions about what I posted instead of scripture proof!

I don't have a theory. What I posted are the facts, none of which contradict any scripture. What you did not do was keep anything in context! You ignored context, which is the only way you can believe as you do because the relevant passages taken in their context absolutely refute the conjecture and doctrine of a HS baptism apart from conversion.

You take three instances, the only three, and ignore the context to try and prove that these three instances prove your baseless conjecture that there is a HS baptism separate from, apart from, and subsequent to conversion. You do as all charismatics do: Take a passage or two, completely ignore the context, and use it as the false basis of an entire doctrinal system and even denomination. Utter foolishness!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Well, I can give the same testimony about both of my experiences with God!
Have I been called to manifest a miracle, no! But does that prove that he does not manifest today because I do not? NO!

You are trying to prove or disprove the Bible by one person's testimony. Stick to the scriptures!

You have one word...out of one chapter...out of one book...out of the whole Bible to prove your theory! I have gives dozens! Stick to scriptures to prove your theory!
Let the greater weight of scriptures be the proof!

But there are not dozens to base your false conjecture on, there are only three passages, each of which you have jerked out of context. In each instance, the HS was delayed being given because of a unique circumstance applicable only to that situation which could not and never was repeated.

Now, as for the gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians, I, unlike DHK, believe all these may be in use today, but legitimate instances of the tongues gift are very rare, as the mission field proves. Certainly tongues are not the evidence of HS baptism, and this baptism does not occur apart from conversion, not since the unique instances in Acts which are unrepeatable due to those circumstances being unrepeatable. What goes on with tongues-talk in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches is not tongues as a real language. It is merely gibberish.

Thus, there is no HS baptism apart from conversion since the Gospel was first received by Gentiles, and tongues are not evidence of HS baptism. Rather, the fruit of the Spirit is.

Charismania is false doctrine which is only 113 years old. It was invented by Charles Parham and William J. Seymour. It has produced spiritual arrogance and divisiveness in the church. Look at all the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches that have been set up to separate their adherents who have received the "full gospel" from all those poor second-class Christians who only have a partial gospel. Disgusting. I don't know how the Christian church, only having a partial gospel, survived for 1900 years until the "full gospel" could be restored.

 

[awaken]

The point, which you seem to be unable to grasp, is that the experience of missionaries on the mission field prove that there is no "real" in this matter. 99%-plus of tongues-talk is not real language but merely gibberish and vain babblings of deceived and deluded people. I will say that I have heard a couple of instances of what I thought were possibly real languages, but I couldn't prove it.

You continually say that I said something which I did not. This can be clearly seen by anyone who can read.

I guess you ignore the ???
That is questioning my understanding of your post...but if it makes you feel inferior go ahead and call me a liar!

I will state it as a fact now since you explained your post clearly! You are wanting to point out that there is fake out there that is documented! Which I will agree that there is fake out there! But my point that you seem to look over is that by you pointing out the fake does not prove the real is not here today!

 

[awaken]

I don't have a theory. What I posted are the facts, none of which contradict any scripture. What you did not do was keep anything in context! You ignored context, which is the only way you can believe as you do because the relevant passages taken in their context absolutely refute the conjecture and doctrine of a HS baptism apart from conversion.

You take three instances, the only three, and ignore the context to try and prove that these three instances prove your baseless conjecture that there is a HS baptism separate from, apart from, and subsequent to conversion. You do as all charismatics do: Take a passage or two, completely ignore the context, and use it as the false basis of an entire doctrinal system and even denomination. Utter foolishness!

And you want to prove they are out of context by throwing in your own interpretation! Not by other scriptures!

 

[awaken]

But there are not dozens to base your false conjecture on, there are only three passages, each of which you have jerked out of context. In each instance, the HS was delayed being given because of a unique circumstance applicable only to that situation which could not and never was repeated.

Now, as for the gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians, I, unlike DHK, believe all these may be in use today, but legitimate instances of the tongues gift are very rare, as the mission field proves. Certainly tongues are not the evidence of HS baptism, and this baptism does not occur apart from conversion, not since the unique instances in Acts which are unrepeatable due to those circumstances being unrepeatable. What goes on with tongues-talk in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches is not tongues as a real language. It is merely gibberish.

Thus, there is no HS baptism apart from conversion since the Gospel was first received by Gentiles, and tongues are not evidence of HS baptism. Rather, the fruit of the Spirit is.

Charismania is false doctrine which is only 113 years old. It was invented by Charles Parham and William J. Seymour. It has produced spiritual arrogance and divisiveness in the church. Look at all the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches that have been set up to separate their adherents who have received the "full gospel" from all those poor second-class Christians who only have a partial gospel. Disgusting. I don't know how the Christian church, only having a partial gospel, survived for 1900 years until the "full gospel" could be restored.

Well, what you fail to understand that the disciples were not saved on the Day of Pentecost they were empowered. I have addressed all that in this thread.

THe partial gospel is very important...Salvation is very important! But what most denominations leave out and do not teach their people is the power to live out that salvation...which is the Holy Spirit!

 

[awaken]

By one person's testimony??
No.
I grant you the world.

Show me any person in all the world that can demonstrate the gift of miracles, the gift of healing, the gift of Biblical languages. Where are they.

Do you think there is a person alive that can walk into a hospital and just with the touch of his hand heal all that are in the hospital, or even the ER room. Not a chance! No one today has that wonderful gift of healing that Peter had.

I have never eye witnessed any of that other than the one I posted in another thread! She was healed by the laying on of hands. I have also heard many speak of what they witnessed on the field.

If the New Testament tells us to clear out hospitals then that's what we should do.

What we find in the Gospels, however, is that Jesus didn't always heal everyone around Him, nor did He go out in search of people to heal. He healed everyone who came to Him. He healed a lame man at the pool of Bethesda, but apparently He didn't heal any of the other disabled people there (John 5:2-9). He went in and out of the temple gate many times, yet He never healed a beggar there who was crippled from birth (Acts 3:2-8). There are a number of passages which say that Jesus healed all of the sick people in various places, but these were people who came to Him or who were brought to Him. These were not people whom Jesus sought out to heal.

Since Jesus didn't automatically heal everyone around Him, and since He didn't seek out people to heal, and since there's no record of Him going around emptying out leper colonies, we have no Scriptural precedent for trying to empty out hospitals.

If the Holy Spirit leads us to visit a hospital and go around healing people then that's what we should do. But otherwise it's not likely to be fruitful if most of the patients have not had their hearts prepared to respond in faith.

 

[DHK]

I have never eye witnessed any of that other than the one I posted in another thread! She was healed by the laying on of hands. I have also heard many speak of what they witnessed on the field.

So what! That is not the gift of healing. That is an answer to prayer.
The gift of healing is demonstrated by Peter in Acts 5:16 when thousands come to be healed.
I have seen people healed in my ministry also. But I don't claim to have the gift of healing. That is ludicrous. No one has ever witnessed what Peter did in Acts 5:16. He healed all that came to him, broken arms, the lame, blind, deaf, mute, crippled, lepers, etc., no one excluded--everyone!

If the New Testament tells us to clear out hospitals then that's what we should do.

Anyone with the true gift of healing and an ounce of compassion would go into such a traumatic place as the ER and heal the people there. Or they would go into the palliative care wing of the hospital, the ICU (intensive Care). But you Charismatic are emotionless, heartless beings who claim the power of God but deny it in the same breath.

What we find in the Gospels, however, is that Jesus didn't always heal everyone around Him,

That is a lie. Jesus healed all that came to him. He never denied anyone.

nor did He go out in search of people to heal. He healed everyone who came to Him.

You just contradicted yourself. He healed all who came to him. He couldn't avoid the crowds. He didn't have to search for people.

He healed a lame man at the pool of Bethesda, but apparently He didn't heal any of the other disabled people there (John 5:2-9). He went in and out of the temple gate many times, yet He never healed a beggar there who was crippled from birth (Acts 3:2-8). There are a number of passages which say that Jesus healed all of the sick people in various places, but these were people who came to Him or who were brought to Him. These were not people whom Jesus sought out to heal.

He healed all that came to him.

Since Jesus didn't automatically heal everyone around Him, and since He didn't seek out people to heal, and since there's no record of Him going around emptying out leper colonies, we have no Scriptural precedent for trying to empty out hospitals.

Thousands come to faith healers like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and others. They claim to have the power to heal, but they can't. Hinn has never healed anyone though he has claimed to heal many. He is like you, a hypocrite.

If the Holy Spirit leads us to visit a hospital and go around healing people then that's what we should do. But otherwise it's not likely to be fruitful if most of the patients have not had their hearts prepared to respond in faith.

Jesus healed ten lepers. Only one came back to thank him. The others went on their merry way, still ungrateful, still unthankful. Healing doesn't depend on the faith of the one being healed, but rather on the one doing the healing. Jesus healed the unsaved. Blame the person being healed of not having enough faith and that makes you a cruel evil person.

 

[awaken]

So what! That is not the gift of healing. That is an answer to prayer.
The gift of healing is demonstrated by Peter in Acts 5:16 when thousands come to be healed.
I have seen people healed in my ministry also. But I don't claim to have the gift of healing. That is ludicrous. No one has ever witnessed what Peter did in Acts 5:16. He healed all that came to him, broken arms, the lame, blind, deaf, mute, crippled, lepers, etc., no one excluded--everyone!

I have heard testimonies contrary to what you post! NO, I have never eye witnessed it! Peter never healed anyone! It was God then and it is God now!

Anyone with the true gift of healing and an ounce of compassion would go into such a traumatic place as the ER and heal the people there. Or they would go into the palliative care wing of the hospital, the ICU (intensive Care). But you Charismatic are emotionless, heartless beings who claim the power of God but deny it in the same breath.

Why didn't Jesus?

That is a lie. Jesus healed all that came to him. He never denied anyone.

So now you are saying he healed them all at the pool of Bethesda? You are adding to scripture again! So you are saying he healed the beggar who was crippled from birth (Acts 3:2-8), then why did the disciples have to heal him again?

You just contradicted yourself. He healed all who came to him. He couldn't avoid the crowds. He didn't have to search for people.

THe point that you miss is that, Yes! he healed ALL THAT CAME TO HIM. But he did not heal all that lived during that time! It does not say he went to the leprosy colony and cleared it out...and to say for sure he did would be just an assumption on your part! Lets not assume what the Word is not clear on!

He healed all that came to him.

I have already stated that! I even bolded it so you would see it!

Thousands come to faith healers like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and others. They claim to have the power to heal, but they can't. Hinn has never healed anyone though he has claimed to heal many. He is like you, a hypocrite.

I can not pass judgment on those! You seem to have the authority to do that!

Jesus healed ten lepers. Only one came back to thank him. The others went on their merry way, still ungrateful, still unthankful. Healing doesn't depend on the faith of the one being healed, but rather on the one doing the healing. Jesus healed the unsaved. Blame the person being healed of not having enough faith and that makes you a cruel evil person.

You are reading in to scripture something that is not stated! THey all came to him, therefore they believed he could heal!

 

[DHK]

I have heard testimonies contrary to what you post! NO, I have never eye witnessed it! Peter never healed anyone! It was God then and it is God now!

All anecdotal; nothing that can be verified. This whole world would know if thousands or even hundreds were actually being healed--broken arms, crippled, blind, deaf, mute, lepers, etc. It doesn't happen. Sure, they get healed of their stomach aches, colds, flus, ear aches, etc. The body heals itself.
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one. (thousands)

Why didn't Jesus?

Perhaps he didn't have a hospital to enter into? Duh.
The equivalent was the ten lepers.

So now you are saying he healed them all at the pool of Bethesda? You are adding to scripture again! So you are saying he healed the beggar who was crippled from birth (Acts 3:2-8), then why did the disciples have to heal him again?

Show me where Jesus denied anyone who came to him from being healed.

THe point that you miss is that, Yes! he healed ALL THAT CAME TO HIM. But he did not heal all that lived during that time!

I never said he did. The whole world obviously wasn't healed. But he didn't turn away those "that didn't have faith." He didn't blame them "for not having faith," as silly and cruel Charismatics do today.

It does not say he went to the leprosy colony and cleared it out...and to say for sure he did would be just an assumption on your part! Lets not assume what the Word is not clear on!

He healed the lepers that came to him. There were no leper colonies. Do your history. The lepers wandered "outside the camp." They were ordered to tell people when they approached. "Unclean, unclean." How do you think that ten lepers were able to get close to Jesus at all? Leper colonies were invented afterwards.

I can not pass judgment on those! You seem to have the authority to do that!

Yes, I have that authority. I have studied it out. The CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) took a team of doctors, journalists, and some others and followed Benny Hinn on one of his world tours. They interviewed some on every place that he stopped and supposedly healed. They asked for their personal stories, why they came, what kind of sickness they had, if they thought that Benn Hinn could and did heal them. Then a year later they went and sought out the same people. Not one was healed. Not a single person in all the crusades that he held in that entire world tour.
So it is with all the so-called faith healers of today. They are money-making frauds that have no power to heal at all. No one does. The gift of healing has ceased.

You are reading in to scripture something that is not stated! THey all came to him, therefore they believed he could heal!

That doesn't mean they were saved. The nine lepers may have believed that Jesus had the power to heal. That was a selfish belief. They didn't trust him, neither were they thankful. It was not their faith that healed them. It never is. It is Christ that heals not a person's faith. But the Charismatics have it backwards. If they fail they blame it on the sick person instead of taking responsibility for their own failures.

 

[Yeshua1]

I have heard testimonies contrary to what you post! NO, I have never eye witnessed it! Peter never healed anyone! It was God then and it is God now!

Why didn't Jesus?

So now you are saying he healed them all at the pool of Bethesda? You are adding to scripture again! So you are saying he healed the beggar who was crippled from birth (Acts 3:2-8), then why did the disciples have to heal him again?

THe point that you miss is that, Yes! he healed ALL THAT CAME TO HIM. But he did not heal all that lived during that time! It does not say he went to the leprosy colony and cleared it out...and to say for sure he did would be just an assumption on your part! Lets not assume what the Word is not clear on!

I have already stated that! I even bolded it so you would see it!

I can not pass judgment on those! You seem to have the authority to do that!


You are reading in to scripture something that is not stated! THey all came to him, therefore they believed he could heal!

why has there NEVER been documented and verified ANY who had the gift to heal/do miracles/to be able to prophesing in the church since Apostle john died?

1900 years of silence...

was the Church in total unbelief all that time, and God finally restored the NT gifts back in 1905 to the church?

 

[awaken]

All anecdotal; nothing that can be verified. This whole world would know if thousands or even hundreds were actually being healed--broken arms, crippled, blind, deaf, mute, lepers, etc. It doesn't happen. Sure, they get healed of their stomach aches, colds, flus, ear aches, etc. The body heals itself.
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one. (thousands)

Why do you post scripture on something we agree on! I agreed that he healed ALL THAT CAME TO HIM!

Perhaps he didn't have a hospital to enter into? Duh.
The equivalent was the ten lepers.

This is your answer! Oh, I see...you really can not reply to the truth in that statement!

Show me where Jesus denied anyone who came to him from being healed.

You are dancing around my questions! Answer the questions!
Did he healed them all at the pool of Bethesda? Did he healed the beggar who was crippled from birth (Acts 3:2-8), then why did the disciples have to heal him again?

I never said he did. The whole world obviously wasn't healed. But he didn't turn away those "that didn't have faith." He didn't blame them "for not having faith," as silly and cruel Charismatics do today.[/quote] They would come to him unless they had faith he could heal them! It is that simple!!

He healed the lepers that came to him. There were no leper colonies. Do your history. The lepers wandered "outside the camp." They were ordered to tell people when they approached. "Unclean, unclean." How do you think that ten lepers were able to get close to Jesus at all? Leper colonies were invented afterwards.

You use your demeaning remarks to avoid the simplicity in what was stated! He did not heal ALL while he walked on earth! ONLY those that came to Him! Only the ones that had faith in him to heal! Show me one that did not have faith when he healed them!

Yes, I have that authority. I have studied it out. The CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) took a team of doctors, journalists, and some others and followed Benny Hinn on one of his world tours. They interviewed some on every place that he stopped and supposedly healed. They asked for their personal stories, why they came, what kind of sickness they had, if they thought that Benn Hinn could and did heal them. Then a year later they went and sought out the same people. Not one was healed. Not a single person in all the crusades that he held in that entire world tour.
So it is with all the so-called faith healers of today. They are money-making frauds that have no power to heal at all. No one does. The gift of healing has ceased.

So again you are going to disprove what the Bible says because you believe the fake!

That doesn't mean they were saved. The nine lepers may have believed that Jesus had the power to save. That was a selfish belief. They didn't trust him, neither were they thankful. It was not their faith that saved them. It never is. It is Christ that heals not a person's faith. But the Charismatics have it backwards. If they fail they blame it on the sick person instead of taking responsibility for their own failures.

They still had faith! THey had to believe that he would heal them are they would not have gone to him!
Are you saying you wanting salvation is not somewhat selfish?
So you are saying that our faith has nothing to do with our salvation?????

 

[Yeshua1]

Why do you post scripture on something we agree on! I agreed that he healed ALL THAT CAME TO HIM!
This is your answer! Oh, I see...you really can not reply to the truth in that statement!
You are dancing around my questions! Answer the questions!
Did he healed them all at the pool of Bethesda? Did he healed the beggar who was crippled from birth (Acts 3:2-8), then why did the disciples have to heal him again?

I never said he did. The whole world obviously wasn't healed. But he didn't turn away those "that didn't have faith." He didn't blame them "for not having faith," as silly and cruel Charismatics do today.

They would come to him unless they had faith he could heal them! It is that simple!!

You use your demeaning remarks to avoid the simplicity in what was stated! He did not heal ALL while he walked on earth! ONLY those that came to Him! Only the ones that had faith in him to heal! Show me one that did not have faith when he healed them!

So again you are going to disprove what the Bible says because you believe the fake!

They still had faith! THey had to believe that he would heal them are they would not have gone to him!
Are you saying you wanting salvation is not somewhat selfish?
So you are saying that our faith has nothing to do with our salvation?????[/QUOTE]

Why is it jesus healed ALL that came to him , but there are NONE today that can claim One, much less all were healed?

 

[awaken]

Can anyone show me in scriptures other than that one word..in that one chapter...in that one book...in the entire Bible that the Gifts have ceased?

I do not want opinions or assumptions! I want a scripture other than the one posted in the OP...which I have already shared does not mean the completion of the Bible!

No one has yet to give one!

 

[Yeshua1]

Can anyone show me in scriptures other than that one word..in that one chapter...in that one book...in the entire Bible that the Gifts have ceased?

I do not want opinions or assumptions! I want a scripture other than the one posted in the OP...which I have already shared does not mean the completion of the Bible!

No one has yet to give one!

the scriptures are there, but one MUST apply sound bible interpreting rules and principles to see the truth concerning them, NOT filter them all thru "Charasmatic chaos!"

 

[Yeshua1]

Can anyone show me in scriptures other than that one word..in that one chapter...in that one book...in the entire Bible that the Gifts have ceased?

I do not want opinions or assumptions! I want a scripture other than the one posted in the OP...which I have already shared does not mean the completion of the Bible!

No one has yet to give one!

the scriptures are there, but one MUST apply sound bible interpreting rules and principles to see the truth concerning them, NOT filter them all thru "Charasmatic chaos!"

Again,
why has there NEVER been documented and verified ANY who had the gift to heal/do miracles/to be able to prophesing in the church since Apostle john died?

1900 years of silence...

was the Church in total unbelief all that time, and God finally restored the NT gifts back in 1905 to the church?

 

[awaken]

To answer the poster that are stuck on healings and why we can do not see it today or hear of it.....
If we don't believe in divine healing simply because we never see or hear about it, then we're basing our views on experience rather than basing our views on Scripture.

The New Testament shows that healings and miracles happen by faith. Do you know anyone who honestly expects a miracle to happen right in front of their eyes while they're praying for a sick person? Most Christians don't seem willing to step out in faith for miracles, so it's no surprise that they don't see any miracles. Could this be one reason why we rarely hear about any healings!

I hear testimonies all the time of healings of hearing and seeing. Here in the U.S.!

But this thread is not to discuss what we are seeing or hearing now....but what the Bible says about when and if the ever died out.

Do you have a scripture saying that they will? Because this would seem to be an important thing in the Bible. If I was sick and knew it was going to die out at a certain time...I would want to know the year, day, hour etc....

 

[Yeshua1]

To answer the poster that are stuck on healings and why we can do not see it today or hear of it.....
If we don't believe in divine healing simply because we never see or hear about it, then we're basing our views on experience rather than basing our views on Scripture.

The New Testament shows that healings and miracles happen by faith. Do you know anyone who honestly expects a miracle to happen right in front of their eyes while they're praying for a sick person? Most Christians don't seem willing to step out in faith for miracles, so it's no surprise that they don't see any miracles. Could this be one reason why we rarely hear about any healings!

I hear testimonies all the time of healings of hearing and seeing. Here in the U.S.!

But this thread is not to discuss what we are seeing or hearing now....but what the Bible says about when and if the ever died out.

Do you have a scripture saying that they will? Because this would seem to be an important thing in the Bible. If I was sick and knew it was going to die out at a certain time...I would want to know the year, day, hour etc....

do you know of ANY historical person in the church since the Apsotles that had 100 % healings done for all they preyed over/ that did signs and wonders that were verified by the facts, not second hand here say?

THE only ones you might use would be those that the RCC said were real saints, as think they had to have 3 verified healings!

The big probem for your view is that the bible expects 100 % accuracy in prophet, and same for one caliming Apsotolic healing/signs/wonders gifting!
Not done once in a great while!

 

[awaken]

do you know of ANY historical person in the church since the Apsotles that had 100 % healings done for all they preyed over/ that did signs and wonders that were verified by the facts, not second hand here say?

THE only ones you might use would be those that the RCC said were real saints, as think they had to have 3 verified healings!

The big probem for your view is that the bible expects 100 % accuracy in prophet, and same for one caliming Apsotolic healing/signs/wonders gifting!
Not done once in a great while!

No, the problem for your view is lack of faith in the Word of God!
Well, I guess those apostles that could not cast the demon out of a boy are false apostles because of their faliure!

Look show me in scriptures where they have ceased...don't show me why you are in unbelief! Because without scriptures you are only showing me your opinion and your verifying you unbelief because you do not SEE it or READ about it today!