Have Any Spiritual Gifts Ever "Died Out"?

[DHK]

Well, I can relate to the OP....that was my experience!

Doctrine is not proved through experience; it is proved through the Word of God. Get a copy of John MacArthur's book "Charismatic Chaos" and read it. He deals with that subject extensively. Many people have wacky experiences. What does that prove. Some Charismatics claim to have gone up to heaven, then down to hell and come back again. What doctrine does that prove? What do Out of the Body experiences prove? (That they have had a good dose of an anesthetic). People have experienced seeing demons. People experience all kind of things. Experiences don't verify the Bible. They don't teach doctrine.

I was not taught the whole truth! I was taught as you are trying to teach others here! To deny the manifestation of the HOly Spirit!

If you were not taught the Bible correctly, or the whole Bible then whose fault is that? Go to a church that expounds the Word of God properly! That preaches against ecumenism and the Charismatic movement, and why.

When I was taught the truth concerning this...I embrace that truth by faith!

You were gullible and embraced heresy, and told why you should embrace this heresy. The majority of J.W.'s have a Baptistic background, but are not grounded in the Word of God. They were like you.

Now again I am asking you to stay off my personal walk and debate scriptures! I have noticed those that can not debate scriptures always attack the persons walk or character!

There is no personal attack.
You claim things. You say you can do things. Then you are challenged, and you can't do them.
Here is a similar incident.
Charles Taze Russel was in court on charges of fraud.
He had told various people that he could read the NT in Greek.
This was in Canada. Upon swearing to uphold the truth and nothing but the truth, a Greek NT was placed in front of him. He was asked to read it aloud. He couldn't do what he claimed to be able to do. He was almost deported from Canada just on that charge alone. He was a fraud in the eyes of the other religious leaders of the community and declared publicly to be one.
This is the leader of the J.W.'s.
You are in the same boat. You are claiming to do things that you cannot do. If we had the same kind of people in our generation as we did in his generation they would take you to court and tell you to prove it. You would be told to demonstrate your claims of miracles and healings and abilities to speak in other languages. If you could not you would be charged with fraud. Everyone in the community would look upon you as a charlatan. Give me one good reason why they shouldn't do that right now? Why do you claim things you cannot do?

 

[awaken]

so the Soveregn Lord, knowing that satan and unbelief got into his church here on earth, let it go for 1900 yeras, and waited uptil 1905 torestore the church back to what he originally intended for it to be?

Did satan keep him from doing that all those years, did our unbelief, how was the lord not able to keep his church from falling down?

So are you going to blame God for everything Satan and we do here on earth?
God has allowed a lot to go on here on earth! We refuse to walk in what he said we could! He has already provided/died for us to walk out!

Walk out your own salvation.....We are to walk it out!

 

[awaken]

Doctrine is not proved through experience; it is proved through the Word of God.

Experiences don't verify the Bible. They don't teach doctrine.

We experience what the BIBLE CLAIMS WE CAN! Period!

If you were not taught the Bible correctly, or the whole Bible then whose fault is that? Go to a church that expounds the Word of God properly! That preaches against ecumenism and the Charismatic movement, and why.

THat was my problem...the baptist church did not teach the whole Bible! They left a lot of it out! Skimmed over what they themselves were not walking in or could explain!

You were gullible and embraced heresy, and told why you should embrace this heresy. The majority of J.W.'s have a Baptistic background, but are not grounded in the Word of God. They were like you.

No, I was gulible when I believed the lies taught before! I believed without digging it out myself! The results of where I am now is because I did search it out for myself!

There is no personal attack.

Calling someone a liar is pretty personal! Debating someones walk with God is personal! IF you would stick to the scriptures without adding my personal walk (or others) in the debate, more would be acomplished!

 

[DHK]

We experience what the BIBLE CLAIMS WE CAN! Period!

Does the Bible forbid you from experiencing God talking to you out of a burning bush, walking on water, turning water into wine? Then do it.

THat was my problem...the baptist church did not teach the whole Bible! They left a lot of it out! Skimmed over what they themselves were not walking in or could explain!

Then why didn't you ask questions then and there. Don't blame the church. Blame yourself.

You were gullible and embraced heresy, and told why you should embrace this heresy. The majority of J.W.'s have a Baptistic background, but are not grounded in the Word of God. They were like you.

No, I was gulible when I believed the lies taught before! I believed without digging it out myself! The results of where I am now is because I did search it out for myself!

That is the problem of "digging it out for yourself." What did you do? Go to a Charismatic internet site? Instead of listening to a sound Bible teacher or pastor, like the Lord gave to the churches, you were misled. The Lord gave us pastors and teachers for a reason. But you went out on your own and led yourself into heresy.

Calling someone a liar is pretty personal! Debating someones walk with God is personal! IF you would stick to the scriptures without adding my personal walk (or others) in the debate, more would be acomplished!

I never called you a liar.
I gave you a parallel example with Charles Taze Russel. He was charged with fraud for claiming to do things he could not do--just like you do.
You claim the gifts of the Spirit are operative today but can produce no evidence. That is fraud. It is just as bad as what Russel did? Why shouldn't you receive the same sentence?

 

[awaken]

Does the Bible forbid you from experiencing God talking to you out of a burning bush, walking on water, turning water into wine? Then do it.

Do you not see your desperate attempt when you write something like this!!! Nowhere does he ask us or tell us that WE CAN do the above! But he does say these signs will follow, desire spiritual gifts etc.

Then why didn't you ask questions then and there. Don't blame the church. Blame yourself.

Oh, I did! I do not put full blame on the church!

That is the problem of "digging it out for yourself." What did you do? Go to a Charismatic internet site? Instead of listening to a sound Bible teacher or pastor, like the Lord gave to the churches, you were misled. The Lord gave us pastors and teachers for a reason. But you went out on your own and led yourself into heresy.j

See, now why can't you ask a genuine question without the snide remarks??? No, I went straight to God!

I never called you a liar.

ok, sure! insinuation is not calling someone a liar...that is ok..it does not matter! You know in your heart what your intentions were with all your previous comments!

Now lets get back to scriptures and leave my walk and others out of it! Prove your point by scriptures!

 

[DHK]

Do you not see your desperate attempt when you write something like this!!! Nowhere does he ask us or tell us that WE CAN do the above! But he does say these signs will follow, desire spiritual gifts etc.

No he doesn't. He said (in the context of the passage), that they would follow the Apostles. But if you really think they follow you then don't be afraid to pick up your Draino and swallow it, for the promise is that no poisonous substance will harm you. Right?

Oh, I did! I do not put full blame on the church!

It certainly seems that way. "My church didn't teach these things."
That is blame.

See, now why can't you ask a genuine question without the snide remarks??? No, I went straight to God!

1. God does not teach the heresy you believe in. So I don't believe you went straight to God. He doesn't lead in that manner. The Holy Spirit would not lead you to those beliefs.
2. Therefore you got those beliefs from somewhere else; from some other influence. Admit it. Even Hindus, Hatian Voodoos, Mormons, and other pagan religions speak in tongues. They originate in paganism. Why would you think that a pagan practice is a Christian practice? And why would you think that God led you that way?

ok, sure! insinuation is not calling someone a liar...that is ok..it does not matter! You know in your heart what your intentions were with all your previous comments!

The heart of debate is to challenge one's beliefs. If you don't like it go down in the Other discussions forum where they talk about the weather, and fixing up their home, and grooming their pets, etc. Here we talk about doctrine, and one's beliefs or doctrines are challenged. Put on a thicker skin and be prepared to have your beliefs challenged.

Now lets get back to scriptures and leave my walk and others out of it! Prove your point by scriptures!

Your walk was not challenged. Your beliefs were.
You have no evidence for those beliefs just as Charles Russel had no evidence for what he claims. Why shouldn't you receive the same condemnation?

 

[Yeshua1]

So are you going to blame God for everything Satan and we do here on earth?
God has allowed a lot to go on here on earth! We refuse to walk in what he said we could! He has already provided/died for us to walk out!

Walk out your own salvation.....We are to walk it out!

do you hold then that God knew His church was going wayward from the power of pentacost soon after the Apostolic Age ended, and though he wanted the church to keep on doing all those things it did in Acts, he was powerless to do anything about it until 1905?

that He NEVER told that truth to calvin, Luthor, any of the past teachers, but gave that revealtion truth to a remnant group in 1905?

Your God seems to be either weak, or petty, for he let his church drift away, knowing all the time that he couuld step and give them the "real deal!"

 

[awaken]

No he doesn't. He said (in the context of the passage), that they would follow the Apostles.

No, in context he told them to GO AND PREACH the gospel to every creature! So I guess that one is not for us either??:laugh:
AGAIN IN CONTEXT, When they preached the gospel to every creature....THOSE (that is us) that believe and is baptized shall be saved!
TO CONTINUE IN CONTEXT...And these signs shall follow them that believe (that is us again).

It certainly seems that way. "My church didn't teach these things."
That is blame.

Well, you always read more than I post anyway...because I plainly posted " I do not put full blame on the church! " You add to my post like you add to the Word of God to make a false interpretation!

1. God does not teach the heresy you believe in. So I don't believe you went straight to God. He doesn't lead in that manner. The Holy Spirit would not lead you to those beliefs.

Well, your assessment of my walk with God and Him leading me does not matter to me! What God does not teach is what you are spreading...UNBELIEF!

2. Therefore you got those beliefs from somewhere else; from some other influence. Admit it. Even Hindus, Hatian Voodoos, Mormons, and other pagan religions speak in tongues. They originate in paganism. Why would you think that a pagan practice is a Christian practice? And why would you think that God led you that way?

God led me where I am now! If you want to believe otherwise...that will not change my journey with Him! Now, do I have to always lead you away from my personal walk with God back to the scriptures...

The heart of debate is to challenge one's beliefs. If you don't like it go down in the Other discussions forum where they talk about the weather, and fixing up their home, and grooming their pets, etc. Here we talk about doctrine, and one's beliefs or doctrines are challenged. Put on a thicker skin and be prepared to have your beliefs challenged.

I do not mind my belief being debated as long as you keep my personal walk with God out of it! And stick to scriptures!

Your walk was not challenged. Your beliefs were.
You have no evidence for those beliefs just as Charles Russel had no evidence for what he claims. Why shouldn't you receive the same condemnation?

I do! ANd I posted them! Which you ignored every post and began attacking my personal walk! If I thought it would make a difference I would go back to every post that you did not address...but since it does not matter to me either way....

 

[awaken]

do you hold then that God knew His church was going wayward from the power of pentacost soon after the Apostolic Age ended, and though he wanted the church to keep on doing all those things it did in Acts, he was powerless to do anything about it until 1905?

that He NEVER told that truth to calvin, Luthor, any of the past teachers, but gave that revealtion truth to a remnant group in 1905?

Your God seems to be either weak, or petty, for he let his church drift away, knowing all the time that he couuld step and give them the "real deal!"

Does he allow you to drift away from Him? Does he allow you to make mistakes? THe Holy Spirit is a gentleman! He will not force himself on anyone! But he is made available to all who believe!

 

[Yeshua1]

Does he allow you to drift away from Him? Does he allow you to make mistakes? THe Holy Spirit is a gentleman! He will not force himself on anyone! But he is made available to all who believe!

was the reason God could not make the church 'right again" due to unbelief for 1900 yaers, or satan stopping Him, or?

 

[awaken]

was the reason God could not make the church 'right again" due to unbelief for 1900 yaers, or satan stopping Him, or?

Jesus died for the church! He gave gifts to the church!
Jesus finished the work He came to do! THe Holy Spirit will finish the work He came to do!
IF we do not believe in the work of the Holy Spirit through the church...if we quench him in our services..Is that God's fault or ours??

 

[Revmitchell]

Jesus died for the church! He gave gifts to the church!
Jesus finished the work He came to do! THe Holy Spirit will finish the work He came to do!
IF we do not believe in the work of the Holy Spirit through the church...if we quench him in our services..Is that God's fault or ours??

Show me one church service in the NT where any of this occurred.

 

[awaken]

Show me one church service in the NT where any of this occurred.

WHere they quenched the Spirit? Paul was correcting the churches in most of his letters!

 

[Revmitchell]

WHere they quenched the Spirit? Paul was correcting the churches in most of his letters!

Show me where Paul said they were quenching the Spirit.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Does he allow you to drift away from Him? Does he allow you to make mistakes? THe Holy Spirit is a gentleman! He will not force himself on anyone! But he is made available to all who believe!

The Holy Spirit of God is no commodity at the convenience of everyone who snaps fingers for his service.

If the Holy Spirit not with Power declares whom He will "for obedience to the Faith", what power does He have, but instead is delivered over to the liking or dislike of anyone!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Jesus died for the church! He gave gifts to the church!
Jesus finished the work He came to do! THe Holy Spirit will finish the work He came to do!
IF we do not believe in the work of the Holy Spirit through the church...if we quench him in our services..Is that God's fault or ours??

The work of the Holy Spirit has always been SINGLE: TO WITNESS OF CHRIST AND NOT OF HIMSELF!

And that has always been the Holy Spirit's SOLE 'duty'; God expects nothing besides of Him. The Church has NO CLAIM ON THE HOLY SPIRIT; MUCH LESS ANY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL.

 

[DHK]

No, in context he told them to GO AND PREACH the gospel to every creature! So I guess that one is not for us either??:laugh:
AGAIN IN CONTEXT, When they preached the gospel to every creature....THOSE (that is us) that believe and is baptized shall be saved!
TO CONTINUE IN CONTEXT...And these signs shall follow them that believe (that is us again).

A.T. Robertson, A Greek scholar said

Verse 17
They shall speak with new tongues (glôssais lalêsousin [kainais]). Westcott and Hort put kainais (new) in the margin. Casting out demons we have seen in the ministry of Jesus. Speaking with tongues comes in the apostolic era (Ac 2:3; 10:46; 19:6; 1Co 12:28; 14).

verse 18
They shall take up serpents (opheis arousin). Jesus had said something like this in Lu 10:19 and Paul was unharmed by the serpent in Malta (Ac 28:3).

IOW, the "they" refers to the Apostles.

People's NT Commentary says:

These signs shall follow them that believe. It is generally held that this is a promise limited to the apostolic age and to a few of the disciples of that age. Perhaps the plural them does not have for its antecedent the singular he in Mr 16:16, but the plural them in Mr 16:14. If it does not, why is the number changed in Mr 16:15-16? The grammatical construction requires us to look to Mr 16:14 for the antecedent of them in Mr 16:17. In Mr 16:14 the apostles are "upbraided for their unbelief because they believed not them who had seen him after he had arisen." They are commanded to go and tell the glad story, and assured that miraculous credentials shall be given to those of "them who believe" and tell the wonderful tidings.

Well, you always read more than I post anyway...because I plainly posted " I do not put full blame on the church! " You add to my post like you add to the Word of God to make a false interpretation!

I haven't said anything untruthful. You have blamed your church. I can give you exact quotes if you like.

Well, your assessment of my walk with God and Him leading me does not matter to me! What God does not teach is what you are spreading...UNBELIEF!

I am not the one in unbelief. That is a false accusation.
I believe you are in doctrinal error. That is my belief.
I don't believe God leads one into Hinduism.
I don't believe God leads one into Islam.
I don't believe God leads one into the ungodly error of the Charismatic movement. In your unbelief of what the Bible teaches on spiritual gifts you have rejected the truth of the living God.

God led me where I am now! If you want to believe otherwise...that will not change my journey with Him! Now, do I have to always lead you away from my personal walk with God back to the scriptures...

God does not lead one into Mormonism, Hinduism, Spiritism or into the Charismatic movement. It just doesn't happen. God does not lead one into gross error. Don't blame God for doctrinal error.

I do not mind my belief being debated as long as you keep my personal walk with God out of it! And stick to scriptures!

You Charismatic beliefs have been challenged over and over again.
You have no answer. Your failure is as great as the failure of Charles Taze Russel. Why should you not receive just as great condemnation? You cannot prove your position Biblically. I stand on Jesus Christ the solid rock.
The ground you stand on is sinking sand. It is called experience.

I do! ANd I posted them! Which you ignored every post and began attacking my personal walk! If I thought it would make a difference I would go back to every post that you did not address...but since it does not matter to me either way....

You have not posted evidence of the sign of the gifts that I have mentioned. The one time evidence (so-called) that you have given is that in the past you have laid hands on some one and saw them healed. So? Most of us have seen answers to prayer in our lifetime, in fact many of them. That is what that was--an answer to prayer.
The gift of healing, and I emphasize the word GIFT, is demonstrated by Peter in Acts 5:16 when he healed all that came to him--everyone. And there were thousands of them.

Secondly the gift of miracles. Where is the evidence of that being practiced today.

Third, the Biblical gift of miracles--speaking in actual known languages--foreign languages known to others miraculously given to the speaker. Do you have that gift? Can you go to a foreign language and speak the language without ever studying it?

Where is the evidence?

 

[awaken]

A.T. Robertson, A Greek scholar said

IOW, the "they" refers to the Apostles.

People's NT Commentary says:

Well YOu and your commentary is wrong! It is plain is scriptures! One day I will share with you about the snakes and poison...but your not ready yet!

 

[awaken]

The Holy Spirit of God is no commodity at the convenience of everyone who snaps fingers for his service.

I have never stated otherwise!

If the Holy Spirit not with Power declares whom He will "for obedience to the Faith", what power does He have, but instead is delivered over to the liking or dislike of anyone!

Not sure I follow you here???

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Sorry that you hang around the crowd that does not believe in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit! But I experience it every Sunday and Wednesday! ....Sometimes a word of knowledge or wisdom, or praying in the spirit outside the church! Oh yes! and did I mention dreams and visions...but that is another thread!

See, that is presumptive and arrogant in the extreme.

So, you only experience the HS on Sunday and Wednesday. That's rather limiting, wouldn't you say? I experience the HS everyday, but not through some made-up unknown "language".