Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

[AndyMartin]

Hey brother. No,and I apologize for my lack of clarity. It's early and I'm reading this while doing other things at work.

I am saying that I believe Hell is best viewed as a consequence of sin rather than a punishment (in terms of a father punishing a child, or maybe even a court system punishing a criminal). I do believe it is an eternal torment (that the lost will be resurrected to an eternal death). But instead of looking at Hell as a punishment for the lost, I think to best to consider it God's judgment on sin. As such, I believe it must be of eternal duration (just as God's mercy and grace is of eternal duration).

Ok, thanks. But I think that the Bible does equate hell as a punishment for the lost, as their "due" for the rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ in their lives. It is both the Righteous Judgement of God, as well as punishment. I don't think we can really separate the two?

 

[Baptist Believer]

Hi James, can you provide a single verse from the entire Holy Bible that refers to "purgatory"? It matters not one bit if the "pope" or anyone other "authority" says that this place actually exists. We MUST base our understanding on the Infallible, Inerrant Word of Almighty God ALONE.

I am quite certain that our friend James does not believe in the doctrine of purgatory. I think he was simply clarifying some issues about the teaching without advocating it.

 

[AndyMartin]

Did you see where I wrote "THEIR" view?

Apologies, I missed this!

 

[AndyMartin]

I am quite certain that our friend James does not believe in the doctrine of purgatory. I think he was simply clarifying some issues about the teaching without advocating it.

thanks, my misreading his simple words. old age!

 

[JonC]

Ok, thanks. But I think that the Bible does equate hell as a punishment for the lost, as their "due" for the rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ in their lives. It is both the Righteous Judgement of God, as well as punishment. I don't think we can really separate the two?

If by punishment we mean the consequence ("due") of sin, then I think we are indeed saying the same thing. This is how "punishment" is used in biblical penal substitution. I may be reacting to how "punishment" has been used in the past (discussing other topics).

 

[Malachi]

First, the orthodox view is commonly interpreted to be the belief that punishment for the wicked is everlasting and that it is punitive, not redemptive. Because the Bible reveals that God is a God of love and grace, a tension has developed between the concepts of a loving God and of a righteous God who demands absolute justice of the wicked. It is generally conceded, however, that a strict orthodoxy provides a literal everlasting punishment for the wicked.

Second, a view of hell as metaphorical, that is, somewhat non-literal and less specific than the orthodox view, has also attracted many followers. Usually it is conceded that those who are wicked will never be redeemed and restored to a place of blessing in eternity, but the scriptural accounts of their suffering and divine judgment are taken in a less-than-literal understanding.

Third, the Roman Catholic view sees hell as purgatorial, that is, hell has an ante-chamber called purgatory, a place of divine cleansing from which some, at least, will eventually emerge as redeemed and be among the blessed of God. Generally speaking, this view requires that all must go through a period of purgation in which their unconfessed sins are judged and punishment inflicted. Though it may be extensive and continue over a period of time, ultimately, many will be restored to a place of grace and bliss, though others will be damned eternally.

Fourth, the view of hell as a conditional or temporary situation for the wicked has been advocated by many who find a contradiction between the doctrines of everlasting punishment and of a God of love and grace. As a result, they explain that hell is either temporary, in the sense that immortality is conditional and only the righteous will be raised, or that it is redemptive, in the sense that whatever suffering there may be after this life because of sin will end up in the wicked being redeemed and restored to a place of blessing. In other words, conditional immortality or annihilation lessens the severity and the extent of everlasting punishment, while in universalism, all are eventually saved.

Hi there, I am afraid your understanding of the third one, the Catholic one,is incorrect. Catholic theology teaches that everyone that enters Purgatory is SAVED. They just have to cleanse their 'venial sins (non mortal sins), by suffering in Purgatory. However, everyone that enters Putgatory WILL enter Heaven (their belief). If someone dies with a Mortal sin on their soul, they go straight to Hell.

I hope that clarifies it.

 

[Happy]

Am I reading this right?

No.

It appears to me that you are saying that in the end, ALL humans, whether they have repented of their sins, and accepted Jesus Christ as their personal saviour, or not, will be in heaven?

No, I did not say that.

Is this correct?

No.

Do you believe that there will be any people in hell at all,

People is a relative term. Spiritually, the understanding is;
Men are body's created from the dust of the earth and return to the dust of the earth.
Body's are given (imparted LIFE) via Gods breath, via a living soul.
Men thereafter ARE a Body and living soul.

The body is "brought to life", ie begins living, WHEN God imparts life from Him (ie living soul) into the body.

The body thus begins living. The body "maintains" the functions OF the body, BY it's blood.

God requires the BLOOD of ALL body's.
When God requires an individuals BLOOD, the Body dies, and returns to the earth.
The living soul departs the dying body.

Now.... IF.... while the body was living IT submitted in faithfulness to God ~ the departed living soul goes to a place God has prepared for it to go.
OT faithful men ~ their living souls went to the comfort side (Paradise) of hell, waiting for Jesus' soul, departed from His dead body to arrive in hell, AND be first for His soul to LEAVE hell.

That was accomplished.

Thereafter, ALL dead body's of the faithful, continue to have their body's return to the dust.
Their "living souls", go to the place prepared of God, which is no longer the comfort side of hell, BUT since Jesus was first, NOW their living soul goes directly to Heaven. (ie Paradise), to WAIT for the redemption of their body's to be raised and changed.

IF ~ an OT man or a NT man or ANY man from the beginning to this day and forward, IS NOT, DOES NOT become faithful unto the Lord, (while alive in his body)......when that mans body dies....his living soul departs his dying body....and goes to the place prepared of God....which is hell (the torment side of hell)....and his dead body is buried and returns to dust.

and is their any eternal suffering for those who reject the God of the Holy Bible? thanks

Physically Dead body's ~ OT, NT, NOW, FUTURE..... KNOW nothing, FEEL nothing, DO nothing.

Living Souls ~ in or out of the body, are Living Souls. They know and feel and are aware of EVERYTHING that the dead body, knew, felt and was aware of.

Living Souls of the faithful are that which go to heaven after the body is physically dead.
Living Souls of the unfaithful are that which to hell after the body is physically dead.

PEOPLE is a relative term which IS reference to the BODY and SOUL.
PEOPLE do not go to hell per'se.
PEOPLE do not go to heaven.

Physically dead body's of the faithful AND unfaithful go to the grave and return to dust.
Living souls of the faithful go to Heaven.
Living souls of the unfaithful go to Hell.

Both the faithful and unfaithful are IN WAITING for "judgement".
The faithful shall receive Changed Body's.
The unfaithful shall NOT receive Changed Body's.

Continued;

 

[AndyMartin]

No.



No, I did not say that.



No.



People is a relative term. Spiritually, the understanding is;
Men are body's created from the dust of the earth and return to the dust of the earth.
Body's are given (imparted LIFE) via Gods breath, via a living soul.
Men thereafter ARE a Body and living soul.

The body is "brought to life", ie begins living, WHEN God imparts life from Him (ie living soul) into the body.

The body thus begins living. The body "maintains" the functions OF the body, BY it's blood.

God requires the BLOOD of ALL body's.
When God requires an individuals BLOOD, the Body dies, and returns to the earth.
The living soul departs the dying body.

Now.... IF.... while the body was living IT submitted in faithfulness to God ~ the departed living soul goes to a place God has prepared for it to go.
OT faithful men ~ their living souls went to the comfort side (Paradise) of hell, waiting for Jesus' soul, departed from His dead body to arrive in hell, AND be first for His soul to LEAVE hell.

That was accomplished.

Thereafter, ALL dead body's of the faithful, continue to have their body's return to the dust.
Their "living souls", go to the place prepared of God, which is no longer the comfort side of hell, BUT since Jesus was first, NOW their living soul goes directly to Heaven. (ie Paradise), to WAIT for the redemption of their body's to be raised and changed.

IF ~ an OT man or a NT man or ANY man from the beginning to this day and forward, IS NOT, DOES NOT become faithful unto the Lord, (while alive in his body)......when that mans body dies....his living soul departs his dying body....and goes to the place prepared of God....which is hell (the torment side of hell)....and his dead body is buried and returns to dust.



Physically Dead body's ~ OT, NT, NOW, FUTURE..... KNOW nothing, FEEL nothing, DO nothing.

Living Souls ~ in or out of the body, are Living Souls. They know and feel and are aware of EVERYTHING that the dead body, knew, felt and was aware of.

Living Souls of the faithful are that which go to heaven after the body is physically dead.
Living Souls of the unfaithful are that which to hell after the body is physically dead.

PEOPLE is a relative term which IS reference to the BODY and SOUL.
PEOPLE do not go to hell per'se.
PEOPLE do not go to heaven.

Physically dead body's of the faithful AND unfaithful go to the grave and return to dust.
Living souls of the faithful go to Heaven.
Living souls of the unfaithful go to Hell.

Both the faithful and unfaithful are IN WAITING for "judgement".
The faithful shall receive Changed Body's.
The unfaithful shall NOT receive Changed Body's.

Continued;

So, do the souls of the wicked in hell suffer eternal punishment?

 

[Revmitchell]

No.



No, I did not say that.



No.



People is a relative term. Spiritually, the understanding is;
Men are body's created from the dust of the earth and return to the dust of the earth.
Body's are given (imparted LIFE) via Gods breath, via a living soul.
Men thereafter ARE a Body and living soul.

The body is "brought to life", ie begins living, WHEN God imparts life from Him (ie living soul) into the body.

The body thus begins living. The body "maintains" the functions OF the body, BY it's blood.

God requires the BLOOD of ALL body's.
When God requires an individuals BLOOD, the Body dies, and returns to the earth.
The living soul departs the dying body.

Now.... IF.... while the body was living IT submitted in faithfulness to God ~ the departed living soul goes to a place God has prepared for it to go.
OT faithful men ~ their living souls went to the comfort side (Paradise) of hell, waiting for Jesus' soul, departed from His dead body to arrive in hell, AND be first for His soul to LEAVE hell.

That was accomplished.

Thereafter, ALL dead body's of the faithful, continue to have their body's return to the dust.
Their "living souls", go to the place prepared of God, which is no longer the comfort side of hell, BUT since Jesus was first, NOW their living soul goes directly to Heaven. (ie Paradise), to WAIT for the redemption of their body's to be raised and changed.

IF ~ an OT man or a NT man or ANY man from the beginning to this day and forward, IS NOT, DOES NOT become faithful unto the Lord, (while alive in his body)......when that mans body dies....his living soul departs his dying body....and goes to the place prepared of God....which is hell (the torment side of hell)....and his dead body is buried and returns to dust.



Physically Dead body's ~ OT, NT, NOW, FUTURE..... KNOW nothing, FEEL nothing, DO nothing.

Living Souls ~ in or out of the body, are Living Souls. They know and feel and are aware of EVERYTHING that the dead body, knew, felt and was aware of.

Living Souls of the faithful are that which go to heaven after the body is physically dead.
Living Souls of the unfaithful are that which to hell after the body is physically dead.

PEOPLE is a relative term which IS reference to the BODY and SOUL.
PEOPLE do not go to hell per'se.
PEOPLE do not go to heaven.

Physically dead body's of the faithful AND unfaithful go to the grave and return to dust.
Living souls of the faithful go to Heaven.
Living souls of the unfaithful go to Hell.

Both the faithful and unfaithful are IN WAITING for "judgement".
The faithful shall receive Changed Body's.
The unfaithful shall NOT receive Changed Body's.

Continued;

Well alrighty then. Do you also have a view based on scripture or just this thing you just posted.

 

[Happy]

Am I reading this right? It appears to me that you are saying that in the end, ALL humans, whether they have repented of their sins, and accepted Jesus Christ as their personal saviour, or not, will be in heaven? Is this correct? Do you believe that there will be any people in hell at all, and is their any eternal suffering for those who reject the God of the Holy Bible? thanks

Continued;

The WHOLE intent of the written word ~ IS precisely for ANY man to seek and LEARN the KNOWLEDGE God has provided for ALL to read and know HOW a man OF the earth, (who is fallen AWAY from God, which applies to ALL men), can....

1) LEARN about God.
2) LEARN the historical experiences of men WHO became faithful AND those WHO didn't.
3) LEARN the consequences of men WHO become faithful AND those WHO do not.
4) LEARN HOW TO and WHEN TO submit to the Lord.
5) LEARN WHAT a man receives from the Lord for the man's SUBMISSION of faithfulness unto the Lord.
6) LEARN WHAT a man receives from the Lord for the man's REJECTION of faithfulness unto the Lord.

7) LEARN THAT everyone IS an individual and must make his OWN choices and "elections" to be faithful unto the Lord.....or NOT.

8) LEARN THAT the Lord is not slack ~ His work is done ~ His preparations for EVERY individual is already accomplished......BECAUSE.....God already KNOWS a mans "choices".....BEFORE the man knows his OWN choices.

9) LEARN God IS SPIRIT ~ and the big picture is for a NATURAL man OF the earth, to BECOME made WHOLE, which requires a mans CHANGE "FROM" Natural TO Spiritual; and for a man to accomplish that....REQUIRES that to be ACCORDING TO God WAY.......which is precisely taught in the written Word of God.

Do you believe that there will be any people in hell at all, and is their any eternal suffering for those who reject the God of the Holy Bible?

A "man" who rejects God, NEVER receives "eternal" life.

Every "man" is a body.
Every "living man" has received Life from God ie a Living soul.

NOT every man receives a NEW SPIRIT, ie born again.

A man WHO does receive a NEW SPIRIT, IS a man with eternal life.
Did his body die? Yes. Will his living soul die? No. Will his spirit die? No.

And? What about the man WHO never receives a New "eternal living" spirit?

His dead body is in the grave, never to become a "changed" body.
His living soul is in hell, WITHOUT God, and WITHOUT the beauty of the earths surface.
He never received an ETERNALLY living spirit.

So how is his Living soul experiencing existence, as he chose, WITHOUT God?
It is TORMENT. No relief, No pleasures, No comfort, No God with him.....and full well KNOWING there is NO hope for him to reconcile with God.

And? How long does this "physical" TORMENT last?
For unbelieving OT men from the beginning WHO never reconciled to the Lord and physically bodily died...
...SO FAR a few thousands of years.
...AND? for men today? No one is given the Time-frame of HOW LONG before they will be judged.

AND? What about WHEN they are judged, WHAT occurs?
Their dead body's are raised from the grave, and go to hell.
Their living soul is imparted into their dead body's.
Life resumes in their body.
(noting, their body does NOT become changed)
They stand before Christ the Lord. See Him. Trust. Believe. Bow down to Him.
Then the Records (the BOOK of LIFE) is opened.
According to the RECORD (the evidence), is the man judged.
There will be NO RECORD of that man having received ETERNAL LIFE.
The Life (that belongs to God) will be departed from the mans soul, and such life will return to God.
Life departed from the mans soul, also means life is departed from the mans body.
Then the sentence is carried out.
The lifeless body and soul is thrown into the Lake of Fire, thus Destroyed.

So, how does a DESTROYED body and soul, "suffer TORMENT" "forever"?
Physically it doesn't.
Spiritually, the TORMENT forever, means that body and that soul, SHALL NEVER be reconciled unto God.
And the man NEVER received "a new forever living spirit"....thus there IS no forever LIFE in him TO forever physically suffer.

So WHAT does suffer TORMENT forever in the Lake of Fire mean?
Spirits, (which NEVER die), but that which rejected God, which is ie; fallen angels.
Forever they shall be fully aware of their Torment, suffering in flames that are never quenched, with no escaping, suffering separation FROM God, with no option of reconciliation unto God.

 

[Happy]

So, do the souls of the wicked in hell suffer eternal punishment?

Read the continued...

Eternal punishment ~

Physically, as an awareness, no.
For a long time? yes

Eternal punishment as FOREVER being separated from the Lord? yes

Scripture has specific applications, PER, ie according to an individuals choices.

Separation FROM the Lord....can be physical OR spiritual.
Any separation FROM the Lord....IS a spiritual death....and it can also be a physical death.
Again....it depends on the individual according to IF it applies to them.

Scripture most always has A "natural" understanding....AND A "spiritual" understanding.
A "natural" understanding is for "anyone" to comprehend.
A "spiritual" understanding IS what IS Gods "understanding", and basically reserved FOR men WHO stand WITH God. His Understanding in other words is a GIFT from God to His faithful believers.

For example ~

A man WHO submits unto the Lord.....IS giving his body unto death...(crucified with Christ).
Well now you have to separate the "natural" understanding from the "spiritual" understanding....
Because "naturally" your body is STILL physically living....
But according to Gods understanding, your body then IS dead (crucified)...THEN sanctified and justified.

And ~
Before commitment unto to God....
Your body is "naturally" living.
BUT....according to God.... "spiritually" DEAD.

Once you give your body....crucified with Christ....your body IS STILL "physically" alive....AND NOW....
accepted UNTO GOD as DEAD (CRUCIFIED)......AND HE SANCTIFIES AND HE JUSTIFIES your body....and THEN He "internally" gives you eternal life within your body (ie born again spirit).....

The BODY, has thus fulfilled it's sentence.....that it MUST DIE ONCE....
Will the body ALSO physically die? Maybe. Maybe not. That depends on WHEN Christ "returns" to claim, redeem, take, rapture, ALL body's that have completed their at LEAST ONCE death, AND who are in faithfulness to God.

 

[Happy]

Well alrighty then. Do you also have a view based on scripture or just this thing you just posted.

All of my beliefs are based on Christ's doctrine recorded in Scripture.
You can go and verify in scripture any particular thing I have said, just as Scripture teaches you to do.
If you can not find the verification in scripture, of any particular thing I have said....quote me and ask me.

 

[Revmitchell]

All of my beliefs are based on Christ's doctrine recorded in Scripture.
You can go and verify in scripture any particular thing I have said, just as Scripture teaches you to do.
If you can not find the verification in scripture, of any particular thing I have said....quote me and ask me.

If you actually thought you had scriptural support for that post you would have included it.

 

[AndyMartin]

Read the continued...

Eternal punishment ~

Physically, as an awareness, no.
For a long time? yes

Eternal punishment as FOREVER being separated from the Lord? yes

Scripture has specific applications, PER, ie according to an individuals choices.

Separation FROM the Lord....can be physical OR spiritual.
Any separation FROM the Lord....IS a spiritual death....and it can also be a physical death.
Again....it depends on the individual according to IF it applies to them.

Scripture most always has A "natural" understanding....AND A "spiritual" understanding.
A "natural" understanding is for "anyone" to comprehend.
A "spiritual" understanding IS what IS Gods "understanding", and basically reserved FOR men WHO stand WITH God. His Understanding in other words is a GIFT from God to His faithful believers.

For example ~

A man WHO submits unto the Lord.....IS giving his body unto death...(crucified with Christ).
Well now you have to separate the "natural" understanding from the "spiritual" understanding....
Because "naturally" your body is STILL physically living....
But according to Gods understanding, your body then IS dead (crucified)...THEN sanctified and justified.

And ~
Before commitment unto to God....
Your body is "naturally" living.
BUT....according to God.... "spiritually" DEAD.

Once you give your body....crucified with Christ....your body IS STILL "physically" alive....AND NOW....
accepted UNTO GOD as DEAD (CRUCIFIED)......AND HE SANCTIFIES AND HE JUSTIFIES your body....and THEN He "internally" gives you eternal life within your body (ie born again spirit).....

The BODY, has thus fulfilled it's sentence.....that it MUST DIE ONCE....
Will the body ALSO physically die? Maybe. Maybe not. That depends on WHEN Christ "returns" to claim, redeem, take, rapture, ALL body's that have completed their at LEAST ONCE death, AND who are in faithfulness to God.

So, what sort of "punishment" do the wicked have in hell, if they are unaware of it? I note that you say a lot, but I see no references from the Bible? Surely ALL that we believe if we are true followers of Jesus Christ, MUST be based on the Solid Authority of the Infallible Word of God?

 

[Happy]

If you actually thought you had scriptural support for that post you would have included it.

Careful there Rev ~ YOU are NOT qualified to speak for me to dictate what MY THOUGHTS ARE!

It is amusing to me that a man calling himself a "Reverend", is unfamiliar with which Scripture is being spoken of in regard to a person speaking about Scripture.

The Scripture itself teaches to hear and go verify.
You heard what I said, which was already told you, according to Scripture, and already told you in regard to specific men, according to what applies to such specific men.

IF you can not FIND something in scripture to VERIFY a particular thing I have said....ACCORDING to Scripture ... identify what specifically what you challenge and can not yourself verify....then ask me.

Your purporting YOU disagree with the WHOLE of what I said, and that I must go and verify FOR you everything I said....IS NOT MY JOB.

I will simply take YOUR implication that YOU disagree with the WHOLE of what I said....and BELIEVE you do not TRUST what Scripture teaches....and are not capable of verifying in scripture what I said.

Below is an example of something I said....and to which YOU have dismissed...saying not having "scriptural support".

"Men are body's created from the dust of the earth and return to the dust of the earth."

Gen 2 [7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
Ecc 3: [20] All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Don't attempt to dictate my thoughts.
I have just shown an example of my words ARE verified in Scripture.
I have just shown your total rejection of what I said are without merit, and ONLY reflect on YOU.

I have no problem SHOWING YOU IN SCRIPTURE what I speak about that YOU are incapable of verifying in Scripture, and shockingly unknowing of, while calling yourself Reverend.

I have NO obligation to DO your seeking FOR YOU.
We'll just leave it at.... you dismiss the WHOLE of what I said, since you are not capable of identifying ANYTHING specific you disagree with.
We'll just leave it at.... ANYONE can read what I said, and that YOU dismiss the WHOLE of what I said.
We'll just leave it at... I am accountable for what I say, and YOU are accountable for what YOU say.

 

[Happy]

So, what sort of "punishment" do the wicked have in hell, if they are unaware of it?

Already answered you. The "punishment" IS separation from God FOREVER!
Already answered you. They are FULLY aware of their "eternal" separation from God.
1)
Spiritually, the TORMENT forever, means that body and that soul, SHALL NEVER be reconciled unto God. <--- that applies to a man.
2)
And the man NEVER received "a new forever living spirit"....thus there IS no forever LIFE in him TO forever physically suffer. <--- that applies to a man.
3)
So how is his Living soul experiencing existence, as he chose, WITHOUT God?
It is TORMENT. No relief, No pleasures, No comfort, No God with him.....and full well KNOWING there is NO hope for him to reconcile with God.
4) Spiritual spirits DO NOT DIE. Angelic beings ARE spirits. Holy spirits shall forever have life, AND be WITH the Lord. Unholy demonic spirits shall forever have life, AND be WITHOUT the Lord.

if they are unaware of it?

I said the complete opposite.
I first said, there are two understandings. The natural and the spiritual.
The natural speaks of men as PEOPLE.
The spiritual speaks of men a BODY, SOUL & SPIRIT.
If you want a NATURAL understanding....is to simply say, men live, men die, men go to heaven or go to hell.

If you want a SPIRITUAL understanding....it is more in depth, regarding the body of man, the soul of man and the spirit of man.
Body's die and return to dust.
Souls of man become "restored".
Spirits of man become "born again".
OR they don't.....dependent upon IF the man submits unto the Lord in faithfulness OR NOT.

It matters NOT what a man chooses.....on IF he knows what to EXPECT for his choices....BECAUSE precisely what a man can EXPECT "according to his choices", is all taught IN Scripture.

And specifically WHY I said, it depends on WHAT "applies" to the individual.

Because what YOU believe, HAS zero affect of what will or will not happen to an other.
What YOU believe and do, ONLY affects your final outcome.

I note that you say a lot,

Yes. I give an overview, based ON Scripture.

but I see no references from the Bible?

Correct. I am on a Bible forum. I give credit to those on this forum of having the most BASIC knowledge of Scripture, that they do not require me to do their homework and seeking a quoted Scripture for EVERY word I say.

If you are WITHOUT basic knowledge, THAT is where YOU should start. If when I say man is from the dust and returns to the dust is of complete NEWS to you, YOU and I have nothing to discuss, since you lack too much basic knowledge for me to even proceed to speak of spiritual things and spiritual understanding.

I SAID....IF there is something specific I said, and YOU can not FIND a verifying reference in Scripture, to identify what I said and ask me.

Surely ALL that we believe if we are true followers of Jesus Christ, MUST be based on the Solid Authority of the Infallible Word of God?

And surely being ON a Bible forum you have read and have some basic knowledge of Scripture and already KNOW what Scriptures are being referenced when I say CERTAIN THINGS. And for what YOU are unaware of YOU can seek to verify in Scripture, and what YOU can not find in Scripture YOU can ask the one speaking. Which is precisely what I said.

All of my beliefs are based on Christ's doctrine recorded in Scripture.
You can go and verify in scripture any particular thing I have said, just as Scripture teaches you to do.
If you can not find the verification in scripture, of any particular thing I have said....quote me and ask me.

 

[AndyMartin]

Already answered you. The "punishment" IS separation from God FOREVER!
Already answered you. They are FULLY aware of their "eternal" separation from God.
1)
Spiritually, the TORMENT forever, means that body and that soul, SHALL NEVER be reconciled unto God. <--- that applies to a man.
2)
And the man NEVER received "a new forever living spirit"....thus there IS no forever LIFE in him TO forever physically suffer. <--- that applies to a man.
3)
So how is his Living soul experiencing existence, as he chose, WITHOUT God?
It is TORMENT. No relief, No pleasures, No comfort, No God with him.....and full well KNOWING there is NO hope for him to reconcile with God.
4) Spiritual spirits DO NOT DIE. Angelic beings ARE spirits. Holy spirits shall forever have life, AND be WITH the Lord. Unholy demonic spirits shall forever have life, AND be WITHOUT the Lord.



I said the complete opposite.
I first said, there are two understandings. The natural and the spiritual.
The natural speaks of men as PEOPLE.
The spiritual speaks of men a BODY, SOUL & SPIRIT.
If you want a NATURAL understanding....is to simply say, men live, men die, men go to heaven or go to hell.

If you want a SPIRITUAL understanding....it is more in depth, regarding the body of man, the soul of man and the spirit of man.
Body's die and return to dust.
Souls of man become "restored".
Spirits of man become "born again".
OR they don't.....dependent upon IF the man submits unto the Lord in faithfulness OR NOT.

It matters NOT what a man chooses.....on IF he knows what to EXPECT for his choices....BECAUSE precisely what a man can EXPECT "according to his choices", is all taught IN Scripture.

And specifically WHY I said, it depends on WHAT "applies" to the individual.

Because what YOU believe, HAS zero affect of what will or will not happen to an other.
What YOU believe and do, ONLY affects your final outcome.



Yes. I give an overview, based ON Scripture.



Correct. I am on a Bible forum. I give credit to those on this forum of having the most BASIC knowledge of Scripture, that they do not require me to do their homework and seeking a quoted Scripture for EVERY word I say.

If you are WITHOUT basic knowledge, THAT is where YOU should start. If when I say man is from the dust and returns to the dust is of complete NEWS to you, YOU and I have nothing to discuss, since you lack too much basic knowledge for me to even proceed to speak of spiritual things and spiritual understanding.

I SAID....IF there is something specific I said, and YOU can not FIND a verifying reference in Scripture, to identify what I said and ask me.



And surely being ON a Bible forum you have read and have some basic knowledge of Scripture and already KNOW what Scriptures are being referenced when I say CERTAIN THINGS. And for what YOU are unaware of YOU can seek to verify in Scripture, and what YOU can not find in Scripture YOU can ask the one speaking. Which is precisely what I said.

All of my beliefs are based on Christ's doctrine recorded in Scripture.
You can go and verify in scripture any particular thing I have said, just as Scripture teaches you to do.
If you can not find the verification in scripture, of any particular thing I have said....quote me and ask me.

Your "views" seem very much to be in conflict with the teaching of the Holy Bible. You are gravely mistaken if you think that the "torment" that the wicked will endure, is only "separation" from God. This is exactly what the devil would have all the lost believe!

 

[Happy]

Your "views" seem very much to be in conflict with the teaching of the Holy Bible.

Yet again, you do not provide ONE QUOTE of my words to which you specifically disagree.

You are gravely mistaken if you think that the "torment" that the wicked will endure, is only "separation" from God.

How can I be mistaken about something I NEVER said?
You are attempting to disagree with me, USING YOUR WORDS, not mine. Do you not understand?

This is exactly what the devil would have all the lost believe!

And so? Why is what I DID NOT SAY, reason for you to tell me, what the devil would have the lost to believe?

And so? Why is what I DID NOT SAY, reason for you to say my views are in CONFLICT with Scripture?

Perhaps you did NOT UNDERSTAND...."to quote MY WORDS", that you want to challenge.
Because YOU speaking YOUR WORDS for me, then disagreeing with your OWN WORDS is a moot conversation.

 

[AndyMartin]

Yet again, you do not provide ONE QUOTE of my words to which you specifically disagree.



How can I be mistaken about something I NEVER said?
You are attempting to disagree with me, USING YOUR WORDS, not mine. Do you not understand?



And so? Why is what I DID NOT SAY, reason for you to tell me, what the devil would have the lost to believe?

And so? Why is what I DID NOT SAY, reason for you to say my views are in CONFLICT with Scripture?

Perhaps you did NOT UNDERSTAND...."to quote MY WORDS", that you want to challenge.
Because YOU speaking YOUR WORDS for me, then disagreeing with your OWN WORDS is a moot conversation.

Then can you explain in very simple terms, what you mean by "torment"?

 

[Revmitchell]

Careful there Rev ~ YOU are NOT qualified to speak for me to dictate what MY THOUGHTS ARE!

It is amusing to me that a man calling himself a "Reverend", is unfamiliar with which Scripture is being spoken of in regard to a person speaking about Scripture.

The Scripture itself teaches to hear and go verify.
You heard what I said, which was already told you, according to Scripture, and already told you in regard to specific men, according to what applies to such specific men.

IF you can not FIND something in scripture to VERIFY a particular thing I have said....ACCORDING to Scripture ... identify what specifically what you challenge and can not yourself verify....then ask me.

Your purporting YOU disagree with the WHOLE of what I said, and that I must go and verify FOR you everything I said....IS NOT MY JOB.

I have to say this is a new excuse for not providing scriptural support for a personal opinion.

*note- you can always tell when someone feels they have lost the argument, the level personal attacks unrelated to the topic at hand.