His determinate counsel

If simple fate is what determines the outcome, I don't see how this applies to the non cal view. There is much we don't know about God in regards to time. If He selected some, and not others, it could be said that "simple fate" dooms the reprobate, and they are still being held accountable for their failure to believe in Christ.

 

In a "fair" world, you would now have skypair jumping on this and telling you that you worship the Greek god of fates.

 

I don't have a problem with you saying that simple fate doomed the reprobate.... because it is their own unbelief that dooms them. The problem I have with Calvinism being called fatalism is that we believe God through His Divine Providence and His mercy and grace actively chooses those who will be His. This is not fate, but God's Divine Providence and choice.
If you want to say fate is what dooms the reprobate............ well ok. God created hell for a purpose huh?

 

Yes, for the devil and his angels

 

Are they the only ones who will be there? Will unbelievers be there? Yes.

 

Yes...but you said who was it created for...

 

Are you saying that hell serves a purpose it wasn't created to serve?

 

I just repeated what Scripture said. Isn't earth currently serving a purpose it wasn't created for?

 

No. ........

 

You have your own unique definition of "fatalism," RB. :tonofbricks:

If God causes all things to happen, that is fatalistic thinking. You are saying that nothing we do avails and from our perspective, that is fatalistic. God may think it is wonderful but to us, there is NO HOPE unless we are lucky enough to be God's "fair haired boys."

Your error is in looking at the definition from God's perspective and the ones to whom that negative situation applies -- US.

skypair

 

Earth was created imperfect

 

All you are saying is that it isn't fate if you aren't condemned, RB. Fatalism is fatalism for ALL, not just for some. So tell me --- if you are "condemned" to whatever God's fate is for you, how do you influence God to give you a different outcome?

skypair

 

I'd like to see your rebuttal. What page/post is that?

skypair

 

Things aren't going according to plan? God screwed up?

 

God planned sin? God screwed up?

 

Yes.

No.

 

Yep. No one disagrees that one of the purposes of hell is as the final destination of the devil and his angels. But that isn't the only purpose for hell. If unbelieving sinners go to hell, then God created it for that purpose, too.

I wouldn't think so. Why would you think it was?

 

Yes, God planned sin, but it was people who screwed up.

Earth was created perfect, but God intended for it to become imperfect through the free agency of mankind. We know this in a general way because we know that God's purposes stand, and in a more specific way because we know that before he created, God purposed for Christ to redeem the world. Earth is serving God's intended purpose by needing Christ to redeem it.

 

Exactomundo.