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His determinate counsel

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webdog

webdog

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If simple fate is what determines the outcome, I don't see how this applies to the non cal view. There is much we don't know about God in regards to time. If He selected some, and not others, it could be said that "simple fate" dooms the reprobate, and they are still being held accountable for their failure to believe in Christ.
 
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npetreley

New Member
webdog said:
If simple fate is what determines the outcome, I don't see how this applies to the non cal view. There is much we don't know about God in regards to time. If He selected some, and not others, it could be said that "simple fate" dooms the reprobate, and they are still being held accountable for their failure to believe in Christ.
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In a "fair" world, you would now have skypair jumping on this and telling you that you worship the Greek god of fates.
 
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reformedbeliever

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webdog said:
If simple fate is what determines the outcome, I don't see how this applies to the non cal view. There is much we don't know about God in regards to time. If He selected some, and not others, it could be said that "simple fate" dooms the reprobate, and they are still being held accountable for their failure to believe in Christ.
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I don't have a problem with you saying that simple fate doomed the reprobate.... because it is their own unbelief that dooms them. The problem I have with Calvinism being called fatalism is that we believe God through His Divine Providence and His mercy and grace actively chooses those who will be His. This is not fate, but God's Divine Providence and choice.
If you want to say fate is what dooms the reprobate............ well ok. :) God created hell for a purpose huh?
 
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russell55

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Jarthur001 said:
You will need to ask Russell what she means. But it is my guess that she is speaking of the arena of play. God can and does decree in a arena of play as was seen on that long list of verses given by ben.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "arena of play". I was speaking about God knowing things like the fact that if the miracles done in Chorizin and Bethsaida had been done in Tyre and Sidon, the people of Tyre and Sidon would have repented. He knew it, but he didn't know it because he decreed it, since he didn't decree it. He doesn't know it by foresight, either, since it isn't a future event.

However, what makes everything that happens absolutely certain to occur is the immutability of God's counsel, or his unchangeable purpose or decree. So I do think we can say that God's foresight of future events is based in his decree.
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webdog

webdog

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russell55 said:
Are you saying that hell serves a purpose it wasn't created to serve?
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I just repeated what Scripture said. Isn't earth currently serving a purpose it wasn't created for?
 
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skypair

Active Member
reformedbeliever said:
Fatalism is where simple fate determines the outcome. God's providence is not simple fate..... but God causing all things to happen for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose.
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You have your own unique definition of "fatalism," RB. :tonofbricks:

If God causes all things to happen, that is fatalistic thinking. You are saying that nothing we do avails and from our perspective, that is fatalistic. God may think it is wonderful but to us, there is NO HOPE unless we are lucky enough to be God's "fair haired boys."

Your error is in looking at the definition from God's perspective and the ones to whom that negative situation applies -- US.

skypair
 
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skypair

Active Member
reformedbeliever said:
This is not fate, but God's Divine Providence and choice.
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All you are saying is that it isn't fate if you aren't condemned, RB. Fatalism is fatalism for ALL, not just for some. So tell me --- if you are "condemned" to whatever God's fate is for you, how do you influence God to give you a different outcome?

skypair
 
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skypair

Active Member
Jarthur001 said:
Thanks Skypair...

I knew I could count on you. At lease you don't try to hide what you believe.

Being that Skypair is one of the top freewillers on this site, I guess he just proved me right.
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I'd like to see your rebuttal. What page/post is that?

skypair
 
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russell55

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webdog said:
I just repeated what Scripture said.
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Yep. No one disagrees that one of the purposes of hell is as the final destination of the devil and his angels. But that isn't the only purpose for hell. If unbelieving sinners go to hell, then God created it for that purpose, too.

Isn't earth currently serving a purpose it wasn't created for?
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I wouldn't think so. Why would you think it was?
 
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russell55

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webdog said:
God planned sin? God screwed up? :confused:
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Yes, God planned sin, but it was people who screwed up.

Earth was created perfect, but God intended for it to become imperfect through the free agency of mankind. We know this in a general way because we know that God's purposes stand, and in a more specific way because we know that before he created, God purposed for Christ to redeem the world. Earth is serving God's intended purpose by needing Christ to redeem it.
 
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npetreley

New Member
russell55 said:
Yes, God planned sin, but it was people who screwed up.

Earth was created perfect, but God intended for it to become imperfect through the free agency of mankind. We know this in a general way because we know that God's purposes stand, and in a more specific way because we know that before he created, God purposed for Christ to redeem the world. Earth is serving God's intended purpose by needing Christ to redeem it.
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Exactomundo.
 
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