His determinate counsel

[webdog]

Sigh. Because of the word "for".

Chosen......for.......salvation.

...THROUGH....

<double sigh>

 

[reformedbeliever]

Can it also refer to sequence? Why does it have to refer to time?

First..there was God

second...God made plans

third...God worked

Either way, God wrote that verse to us and used the word "before" and we should understand it in the normal way that we would understand it, and not through some time/space quantam physics sort of interpretation. (ok, I was trying to sound smart on that part. :laugh: )
The point remains though.

Unless it doesn't fit webdog's soterology.

 

[npetreley]

And if the good counsel of His will states we are saved by grace through faith, are we to question?

Eph. 2:8-9 disagrees, we ARE born again BY grace THROUGH faith. I agree it is not an exercise of the will...I don't believe in libertarian free will, that we can do enough or will ourselved to be accepted. We merely have to receive the Truth given us by faith.

Once again you're changing the meaning of "through". In this case you're changing it to "because of our".

 

[webdog]

Why don't you tell God that. If you have already told Him, He must have forgotten it.

The entire of the word before means earlier in time! At what point is God fixated earlier in time? God did something earlier in time...before time was created?

 

[webdog]

Once again you're changing the meaning of "through". In this case you're changing it to "because of our".

I didn't change anything, I just typed "through". Now are we really going to argue what "through" means?
It means by way of...

If I bought a plain ticket to go to California THROUGH Texas, I cannot go to California unless I go through Texas.

 

[reformedbeliever]

The entire of the word before means earlier in time! At what point is God fixated earlier in time?

Who said He is fixated? I suppose He can be in our out of any time He wants to. He is God. That doesn't change the fact that He chose us BEFORE the foundation of the world. Why are you arguing this? Before you argued that the elect in Ephesians 1 are the Jews............. :saint:

 

[Amy.G]

...THROUGH....

<double sigh>

Dude! You know I love ya, but it doesn't say that!


2Th 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning FOR salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

 

[webdog]

Can it also refer to sequence? Why does it have to refer to time?

First..there was God

second...God made plans

third...God worked

Either way, God wrote that verse to us and used the word "before" and we should understand it in the normal way that we would understand it, and not through some time/space quantam physics sort of interpretation. (ok, I was trying to sound smart on that part. :laugh: )
The point remains though.

How can you have sequence without time? That doesn't even make sense.

 

[reformedbeliever]

The entire of the word before means earlier in time! At what point is God fixated earlier in time? God did something earlier in time...before time was created?

Yes. Or have you put Him in a box and are now saying that God can not do something unless it is in time?

 

[webdog]

Dude! You know I love ya, but it doesn't say that!


2Th 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning FOR salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

I love you too...but yes it does

 

[reformedbeliever]

How can you have sequence without time? That doesn't even make sense.

Ask God............

 

[webdog]

Yes. Or have you put Him in a box and are now saying that God can not do something unless it is in time?

If anyone puts God in a box, it is calvinists. You state God has to predetermine something in order for it to happen. With our lack of understanding how God works in time, I hardly have Him in a box. He is sovereign. We have free will to accept or reject Him (a real choice, not a Henry Ford choice... "you can pick any color for the Model T as long as it's black").

 

[webdog]

Ask God............

Ask God how He is illogical

 

[reformedbeliever]

God, let it be known that webdog has effectively compressed you, and has neatly packaged you into his neat, nicely decorated time box. :laugh:

 

[reformedbeliever]

Ask God how He is illogical

You mean like moving time backwards?

 

[webdog]

God, let it be known that webdog has effectively compressed you, and has neatly packaged you into his neat, nicely decorated time box. :laugh:

...and let it be known tha RB has just stated a dishonest response to nothing...

"With our lack of understanding how God works in time, I hardly have Him in a box. He is sovereign. We have free will to accept or reject Him (a real choice, not a Henry Ford choice... "you can pick any color for the Model T as long as it's black")."

What kind of box might this be?

 

[reformedbeliever]

...and let it be known tha RB has just stated a dishonest response to nothing...

Did you notice the smiley at the end of my statement web? Can we make light of this a little? Don't you ever do that?

 

[reformedbeliever]

...and let it be known tha RB has just stated a dishonest response to nothing...

"With our lack of understanding how God works in time, I hardly have Him in a box. He is sovereign. We have free will to accept or reject Him (a real choice, not a Henry Ford choice... "you can pick any color for the Model T as long as it's black")."

What kind of box might this be?

What Calvinist has said we don't have a choice?

 

[webdog]

Did you notice the smiley at the end of my statement web? Can we make light of this a little? Don't you ever do that?

I noticed a :laugh: , but no smiley. That can mean anything, and still doesn't mean it is ok to state a falsehood.

 

[webdog]

What Calvinist has said we don't have a choice?

Since this thread will about to be closed, I'm not even getting into the "non choice, choice" or the "choice between one thing and one thing".